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FHHSAHS said:
You could live under doomsday scenarios, or die a conspiracy theorist. ;)
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If I were 78 years old maybe or had underlying conditions. Hence, ISOLATE THE CRITICAL!

What's sad is watching fearful but intelligent folks use the ole "but even a teenager died from this". As of April 6, in the US a total of 9 people under the age of 20 have died from COV. Seven of those had underlying conditions.

Then comes the ole "but the young spread it to others". Again, ISOLATE THE CRITICAL!
 
TDHelmick said:
If I were 78 years old maybe or had underlying conditions. Hence, ISOLATE THE CRITICAL!

What's sad is watching fearful but intelligent folks use the ole "but even a teenager died from this". As of April 6, in the US a total of 9 people under the age of 20 have died from COV. Seven of those had underlying conditions.

Then comes the ole "but the young spread it to others". Again, ISOLATE THE CRITICAL!
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The 70+ year olds are the ones taking this less seriously than others. I've seen with my own eyes elderly folks out en masse, no masks, nothing. Friends of mine who work in grocery stores and pharmacies validate that to me. The most vulnerable dont take this seriously, you want to isolate them? They wont stay isolated. Do we enact punitive damages to the "greatest generation" when they refuse to stay home and isolate? I dont disagree that would be the best scenario, but how are you going to enforce it when those folks already dont self isolate?
 
FHHSAHS said:
The 70+ year olds are the ones taking this less seriously than others. I've seen with my own eyes elderly folks out en masse, no masks, nothing. Friends of mine who work in grocery stores and pharmacies validate that to me. The most vulnerable dont take this seriously, you want to isolate them? They wont stay isolated. Do we enact punitive damages to the "greatest generation" when they refuse to stay home and isolate? I dont disagree that would be the best scenario, but how are you going to enforce it when those folks already dont self isolate?
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So why advocate forcing anything? ding, ding, ding!
Let this thing run its course.

Better question...give me what you think is going to happen economically and socially if we are still in lock down come Labor Day? Then I will give you my list. Go...
 
So how many dead people is worth a better economy? There's a catch anyway you look at it. If you do nothing and let it run its course more people will die but the economy might recover more quickly. If you quarantine, fewer people will die but the economy will tank, or take longer to recover.

Again it seems to come down to what is more favorable. Fewer dead people or a more resilient economy. Regardless of what means more to me or you...the government has a shitty lose-lose choice to consider. But they almost always lean towards saving more lives than saving more money. I don't have a good answer, as you said before no one does. But I fully understand why the government's are making the decisions they are making right now. Ask me again in a month or so, maybe I will feel differently.
 
FHHSAHS said:
So how many dead people is worth a better economy? There's a catch anyway you look at it. If you do nothing and let it run its course more people will die but the economy might recover more quickly. If you quarantine, fewer people will die but the economy will tank, or take longer to recover.

Again it seems to come down to what is more favorable. Fewer dead people or a more resilient economy. Regardless of what means more to me or you...the government has a shitty lose-lose choice to consider. But they almost always lean towards saving more lives than saving more money. I don't have a good answer, as you said before no one does. But I fully understand why the government's are making the decisions they are making right now. Ask me again in a month or so, maybe I will feel differently.
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Fewer people dead?

Here is what I think most people are not capable of accepting. The fall out (or the cure) of lock down for months will lead to a global collapse where close to a billion people will die in the long run. On the other hand, COV infection will kill maybe 2 million world wide.

Hence the problem. People only see immediate short term.
 
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The curve few talk about:
graph.jpg
 
Out of 8 pages of COV talk on this thread, this may be the most important link I have ever posted. With the lack of testing available, this type of data is extremely urgent. It should directly affect policy making decisions.

New Model Shows COVID More Widespread, Less Severe
8.7 million people in the US estimated to have been infected in March alone.
That is the low end estimate. Could be as high as 28 million.

This data flows more towards what a virus actually does as opposed to just using confirmed cases as a guide. The study used the antibodies of a select group to determine what percentage of people actually had the infection already.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200418/new-model-shows-covid-more-widespread-less-severe
 
TDHelmick said:
Out of 8 pages of COV talk on this thread, this may be the most important link I have ever posted. With the lack of testing available, this type of data is extremely urgent. It should directly affect policy making decisions.

New Model Shows COVID More Widespread, Less Severe
8.7 million people in the US estimated to have been infected in March alone.
That is the low end estimate. Could be as high as 28 million.

This data flows more towards what a virus actually does as opposed to just using confirmed cases as a guide. The study used the antibodies of a select group to determine what percentage of people actually had the infection already.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200418/new-model-shows-covid-more-widespread-less-severe
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Do you read your own articles before you post them?

(Earlier, the researchers had estimated it could be as many as 28 million, but revised it when they re-examined the data after publication.) The research has not yet been peer reviewed.

Study co-author Justin Silverman, MD, PhD, assistant professor of information science and technology at Penn State University, cautions that the data about infection rates needs to be verified yet by other methods, such as testing blood samples and taking swabs.

But the researchers stop short of estimating a revised death rate from their findings.
Fatality rates also depend heavily on how overwhelmed hospitals get and what percentage of cases are tested. Washburne says while their findings suggest a lower fatality rate is possible, it's premature to calculate a death rate from the infection rate the researchers found.

Please for the sake of us all stop already. I'm sure im not the only one on this board tired of the; right-wing ,nut job, I stayed at a holiday inn and obtained my covid-19 medical degree, conspiracies. As someone previously mentioned, inevitably you'll have these same tin foil hat wearing people, through their ignorance downplay the virus because they cannot put 2 and 2 together to draw the conclusion social distancing is actually working.. Let the professionals do their job. If your so eager to play russian roulette why haven't you signed up to work at the Cumberland nursing home with their confirmed cases? Then we could use you for the voluntary guinea pig to see how serious this virus really is..
 
bigsavage said:
Do you read your own articles before you post them?

(Earlier, the researchers had estimated it could be as many as 28 million, but revised it when they re-examined the data after publication.) The research has not yet been peer reviewed.

Study co-author Justin Silverman, MD, PhD, assistant professor of information science and technology at Penn State University, cautions that the data about infection rates needs to be verified yet by other methods, such as testing blood samples and taking swabs.

But the researchers stop short of estimating a revised death rate from their findings.
Fatality rates also depend heavily on how overwhelmed hospitals get and what percentage of cases are tested. Washburne says while their findings suggest a lower fatality rate is possible, it's premature to calculate a death rate from the infection rate the researchers found.

Please for the sake of us all stop already. I'm sure im not the only one on this board tired of the; right-wing ,nut job, I stayed at a holiday inn and obtained my covid-19 medical degree, conspiracies. As someone previously mentioned, inevitably you'll have these same tin foil hat wearing people, through their ignorance downplay the virus because they cannot put 2 and 2 together to draw the conclusion social distancing is actually working.. Let the professionals do their job. If your so eager to play russian roulette why haven't you signed up to work at the Cumberland nursing home with their confirmed cases? Then we could use you for the voluntary guinea pig to see how serious this virus really is..
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Let's never question anything. You have the option of not reading this thread so stop crying.

Let's try this...when this pandemic is over and the CDC posts the final tally of people who actually had COV through antibody testing, the death rate will be below 1%. Would you like to take that bet?

Every study has to go through more verification. There are currently over 7 vaccines that have shown to work that are in clinical trials. That doesn't mean we dismiss the data completely. Open your eyes. Way, way, way more people have or had COV then are being confirmed. Way more. There are over 333 million people in the US and we have tested maybe 3 million.

Do you really think that today only 57 people in Allegany County have COV?. LOL, right. I don't advocate we open up society yet so this thing can spread. But I know we can't stay in lock down until there is a cure.
 
FEAR MONGERING:

When models erroneously predict that 2.2 million people will die, society uses that to dictate policy without verification.

When models predict that 25 million people already have or had the virus, society buries the data without verification.

Not one single person in the US has been denied access to a hospital or ventilator. Not one. Not in NYC, not in Seattle, not in Detroit, not in New Orleans...none. But yes, people die from disease.
 
TDHelmick said:
Let's never question anything. You have the option of not reading this thread so stop crying.

Let's try this...when this pandemic is over and the CDC posts the final tally of people who actually had COV through antibody testing, the death rate will be below 1%. Would you like to take that bet?

Every study has to go through more verification. There are currently over 7 vaccines that have shown to work that are in clinical trials. That doesn't mean we dismiss the data completely. Open your eyes. Way, way, way more people have or had COV then are being confirmed. Way more. There are over 333 million people in the US and we have tested maybe 3 million.

Do you really think that today only 57 people in Allegany County have COV?. LOL, right. I don't advocate we open up society yet so this thing can spread. But I know we can't stay in lock down until there is a cure.
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"Let's try this...when this pandemic is over and the CDC posts the final tally of people who actually had COV through antibody testing, the death rate will be below 1%. Would you like to take that bet?"

Hopefully with -->SOCIAL DISTANCING<-- and other
-->PRECAUTIONARY<-- measures it will be below 1%. Thank God for SOCIAL DISTANCING and for people that had the foresight to see past their noses...
 
TDHelmick said:
FEAR MONGERING:

When models erroneously predict that 2.2 million people will die, society uses that to dictate policy without verification.

When models predict that 25 million people already have or had the virus, society buries the data without verification.

Not one single person in the US has been denied access to a hospital or ventilator. Not one. Not in NYC, not in Seattle, not in Detroit, not in New Orleans...none. But yes, people die from disease.
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Ffs I'll ask again did you even read your own article?

(Earlier, the researchers had estimated it could be as many as 28 million, but revised it when they re-examined the data after publication.) The research has not yet been peer reviewed.

-->(Earlier, the researchers had estimated it could be as many as 28 million, but revised it when they re-examined the data after publication.)<--

That 28 or 25 million number you keep erroneously quoting was REVISED to 8.7 million when the data was RE-EXAMNINED!! Big difference! Furthermore nothing has been confirmed. Its all guess work, speculation, and or conjecture until cconfirmed stop spreading fake news!
 
bigsavage said:
Ffs I'll ask again did you even read your own article?

(Earlier, the researchers had estimated it could be as many as 28 million, but revised it when they re-examined the data after publication.) The research has not yet been peer reviewed.

-->(Earlier, the researchers had estimated it could be as many as 28 million, but revised it when they re-examined the data after publication.)<--

That 28 or 25 million number you keep erroneously quoting was REVISED to 8.7 million when the data was RE-EXAMNINED!! Big difference! Furthermore nothing has been confirmed. Its all guess work, speculation, and or conjecture until cconfirmed stop spreading fake news!
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Yes...8.7 million people. That was for the first 3 weeks of March alone. What do you think those numbers might be for the month of April at peak? This is not fake news. These are critical research projects performed by accredited doctors at the top of their institutions. So why would you want to dismiss this type of data while grasping to death totals and confirmed cases?

Testing for how many people may have had this virus is every bit as important as testing for those who are confirmed to have it. Especially for establishing policy we live in everyday.

We will not supress opinions here. Your opinion is as important as anyone else even though we may not agree. I encourage you to keep debating with critical thought. As will I. After all, this is something our children will tell their grandchildren. COV is with out doubt the most influential aspect of our lives, if not our parent's lives. Why would you want to surpress any type of research? Again, this article is not an opinion. This is urgently needed COV research. You won't find this type of data in the mainstream headlines and that is my biggest issue. As you can see, I take COV extremely seriously. I encourage you to read more. Come back at me with more links and data. Love it. I may learn something new. Yes, it is that important.

I mean if you are truly sick of hearing about critical "right wing" thought about COV...that about sums up the human race. Maybe someday we can go back to debating high school schedules again or who won The Bachelor.
 
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TDHelmick said:
Yes...8.7 million people. That was for the first 3 weeks of March alone. What do you think those numbers might be for the month of April at peak? This is not fake news. These are critical research projects performed by accredited doctors at the top of their institutions. So why would you want to dismiss this type of data while grasping to death totals and confirmed cases?

Testing for how many people may have had this virus is every bit as important as testing for those who are confirmed to have it. Especially for establishing policy we live in everyday.

We will not supress opinions here. Your opinion is as important as anyone else even though we may not agree. I encourage you to keep debating with critical thought. As will I. After all, this is something our children will tell their grandchildren. COV is with out doubt the most influential aspect of our lives, if not our parent's lives. Why would you want to surpress any type of research? Again, this article is not an opinion. This is urgently needed COV research. You won't find this type of data in the mainstream headlines and that is my biggest issue. As you can see, I take COV extremely seriously. I encourage you to read more. Come back at me with more links and data. Love it. I may learn something new. Yes, it is that important.

I mean if you are truly sick of hearing about critical "right wing" thought about COV...that about sums up the human race. Maybe someday we can go back to debating high school schedules again or who won The Bachelor.
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"You won't find this type of data in the mainstream headlines"

That's because the article itself states its UNVERIFIED. In this day and age of "fake news" why would the mainstream take the chance of running unverified data that very well could be junk science?

No one is suppressing anything. The article is very careful to mention several times that the data has been revised and unverified. Yet you're passing it off as gospel. That's the problem with people and media today. They find any talking head any statistic that may confirm their belief no matter how factual and pass it off as written law. What you and other right wing nut jobs are advocating without any verification is very dangerous and can get people killed by presenting an argument that this virus isn't deadly. When your' own article isn't making that claim. So yes im going to be the voice of reason. Free speech and press are not absolute.
Furthermore I'm not grasping for anything. Through your reasoning I'm looking at it from both sides of the argument. I'm watching you contort one way when the very same argument can be made the other way. For example, My wife just told me that her mom's best friend just died. Right before his death he had a high fever and pneumonia. He has also been living with prostate cancer. Exhibiting signs of covid-19 but without being tested his death was ruled prostate cancer. How many people are dying of covid but its ruled something else? See where im going? If we're going to speculate one way someone else can conjure up unverified statistics and speculate the opposite way. For every argument you're making one way the opposite argument can be made the other way. Me personally I find it a waste of time to go down that slippery slope just because my life may be a little inconvenienced. So I choose to let the professionals do their job and watch the tin hats like yourself look a little more illogical and disconnected day by day.
 
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bigsavage said:
"You won't find this type of data in the mainstream headlines"

That's because the article itself states its UNVERIFIED. In this day and age of "fake news" why would the mainstream take the chance of running unverified data that very well could be junk science?

No one is suppressing anything. The article is very careful to mention several times that the data has been revised and unverified. Yet you're passing it off as gospel. That's the problem with people and media today. They find any talking head any statistic that may confirm their belief no matter how factual and pass it off as written law. What you and other right wing nut jobs are advocating without any verification is very dangerous and can get people killed by presenting an argument that this virus isn't deadly. When your' own article isn't making that claim. So yes im going to be the voice of reason. Free speech and press are not absolute.
Furthermore I'm not grasping for anything. Through your reasoning I'm looking at it from both sides of the argument. I'm watching you contort one way when the very same argument can be made the other way. For example, My wife just told me that her mom's best friend just died. Right before his death he had a high fever and pneumonia. He has also been living with prostate cancer. Exhibiting signs of covid-19 but without being tested his death was ruled prostate cancer. How many people are dying of covid but its ruled something else? See where im going? If we're going to speculate one way someone else can conjure up unverified statistics and speculate the opposite way. For every argument you're making one way the opposite argument can be made the other way. Me personally I find it a waste of time to go down that slippery slope just because my life may be a little inconvenienced. So I choose to let the professionals do their job and watch the tin hats like yourself look a little more illogical and disconnected day by day.
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As opposed to setting policy on unverified projections that 2.2 million people could die? All models are unverified data. But I know you are not dumb enough to think only 57 people in Allegany County have or had this virus. If tightly secured nursing homes cannot stop the spread of COV, I can assure you those hiding in their home or going out with a bandana over their face isn't going to stop it either.

But I'm good because I know Phase 1 of reopening will start soon even though the doomsday politicians will continue to argue against it. I'm told not to see my grand kids but can go purchase a bottle of liquor. I don't think so. If society was serious about stopping the spread, it wouldn't be under these current conditions. Half-assing in the name of political correctness doesn't work. We can still buy a plane ticket to Florida tomorrow.

The only thing you have to fear, is fear itself.
 
TDHelmick said:
If tightly secured nursing homes cannot stop the spread of COV, I can assure you those hiding in their home or going out with a bandana over their face isn't going to stop it either.
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Tightly secured nursing homes? With staff that come and go daily and bring the virus in? But hey, lets just isolate the most vulnerable, that'll stop the spread right? c'mon man.
 
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FHHSAHS said:
Tightly secured nursing homes? With staff that come and go daily and bring the virus in?
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This is the issue I can't quite wrap my head around with the "isolate the critical" proposal. It sounds good, but I just can't see any good logistical solution to this.

Where do you isolate them? People just can't stay in their homes without some interaction with the outside world (grocery shopping, doctor appointments, home deliveries, etc).

And I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but how many elderly people live in multi-generation households? My guess is quite a few. Where do they go? Do we convert warehouses/hotels/whatever into some sort of barracks for them? This seems crazy. What about the service workers that would be have to be there that could potentially bring the virus in? If that were to happen, you've now got the most vulnerable members of society living in close quarters where the virus can run rampant. So what starts out as an idea to help keep them safe turns into a scenario where more of them are in danger.

And what about those with pre-existing conditions who don't even realize that they have them? Unless people have routine doctor's visits, which, let's face it, most do not (for a variety of reasons) it's quite possible to be living a normal life without realizing that catching the coronavirus puts them more at risk than the average "healthy" person. In this case we don't even know "who" to isolate, nevermind the "how".

It sounds simple, but I can't see any viable ways to implement this.
 
If folks truly knew of the bureaucratic situation that is occurring from state to state in this community they would truly say, “What the heck?”

People are trying to do ethical and humane practices to protect the most vulnerable and are being denied the opportunity to do so - all in the name of producing insurance and/or Medicare claims.

Unbelievable!

Furthermore, for those who trust the Trump administration that there is significant testing available, simply look at the headlines of today’s Cumberland Times-News.

Enough said.
 
FHHSAHS said:
Tightly secured nursing homes? With staff that come and go daily and bring the virus in? But hey, lets just isolate the most vulnerable, that'll stop the spread right? c'mon man.
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So if we cannot isolate a nursing home, what good is it to try and isolate everybody? C'mon man.

Have you tried to enter a nursing home? No one gets in or out but employees. Not even immediate family. And employees are screened at the door just like at the hospitals. Yet the virus gets in at times.

This proves my point...you really think half ass orders to stay at home (with 500 exceptions for leaving) and wearing a homemade mask is going to work? Yea right. Think I will head to the liquor store now, then to Walmart to purchase a new fishing rod, maybe go for a jog at AC, take a drive to DC, stop to get gas, stop at a restaurant to buy take out, order a pizza, have coffee with the neighbor, maybe buy a plane ticket to NYC, then return home to my family. Hahahahahahaha, hahahahahahaha. Flattening the curve doesn't mean lowering the number of people that get this virus. It means spread it out over time (which I agreed with in the beginning so as not to overload hospitals). Of which not one person has ever been denied hospitalization in the US.

But everyone is going to get it, Comprende? It's only a matter of when not if. So keep sticking our heads in the sand and pretend we are actually doing something about this. If the US was serious about stopping deaths and the spread of this virus, you wouldn't be able to order a pizza or buy a six pack, etc., etc., etc. Since you are telling me that is impossible, then don't tell me about all these other bullshit regulations. People will die from this disease and there is nothing that can stop it. COV-19 will run it's course, it will just take longer doing it the way we have chosen. Bet your life on it.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE SOME OF YOU BEEN OUT THIS WEEK? Once is too many. So don't preach to others about what has to be done.

Some of you need to read this next post below to really understand how this virus spreads and how what we are currently doing destroys the current counter measures in place...making them worthless.
 
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- by Jonathan Smith, a lecturer in epidemiology at Yale University. His research focuses specifically on differential transmissibility of infectious diseases under various population-level and individual-level control measures.

Although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. households) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it, of course, increases contact within a group (i.e. family). This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics.

The basic mechanics of this mathematical principle dictate that even if there is only a little bit of additional connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates, unnecessary trips to the store, etc.), the epidemic likely won’t be much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit.

You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit: If one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk. Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son’s girlfriend’s mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it’s not. This is not a joke or hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that chain.

In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also require sustained action before results are evident. It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how on a population level “one quick little get together” can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it can. I promise you it can. I promise. I promise. I promise. You can’t cheat it.

WE ARE CHEATING IT while expecting false outcomes. This virus will run its course and there is nothing you can do about it.
 
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MCsoccerplex said:
If folks truly knew of the bureaucratic situation that is occurring from state to state in this community they would truly say, “What the heck?”

People are trying to do ethical and humane practices to protect the most vulnerable and are being denied the opportunity to do so - all in the name of producing insurance and/or Medicare claims.

Unbelievable!

Furthermore, for those who trust the Trump administration that there is significant testing available, simply look at the headlines of today’s Cumberland Times-News.

Enough said.
Click to expand...

There is not enough testing for the world. This is not solely a US problem. So there are hundreds of leaders to be blamed me thinks.
 
TDHelmick said:
Have you tried to enter a nursing home? No one gets in or out but employees. Not even immediate family. And employees are screened at the door just like at the hospitals. Yet the virus gets in at times.
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Your next to last sentence is such an overgeneralization.

I have first-hand information about a local situation in which a spouse has been diagnosed with COVID-19. This person works at a local health care facility. I will refer to this as Person A.

Person A was tested over the weekend and diagnosed yesterday.

Person A is currently in quarantine.

Person A’s spouse is Person B.

Person B works at another local health care facility. The facility is very much aware that Person B’s spouse has been diagnosed with COVID-19. Due to Person B being asymptomatic, Person B is expected to report to work.

All the while, the county health department will not test Person B because Person B is asymptomatic.

Again, your statement is simply far from being true.

Yes, this is one way the virus gets into such health care facilities.

Again, it is very apparent insurance claims and Medicare claims are more important than preventing the spread.
 
I agree
TDHelmick said:
So if we cannot isolate a nursing home, what good is it to try and isolate everybody? C'mon man.
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So, contrary to your earlier assertions that we just isolate the vulnerable, you now realize that was inaccurate? What exactly DO you want? Sacrifice the weak?

I'm going back thru the posts, and while I thought I had a bead on your idea for what we should be doing, I see you're now contradicting yourself. What SHOULD be done now? And dont say isolate the vulnerable, you already debunked yourself on that one.
 
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MCsoccerplex said:
Your next to last sentence is such an overgeneralization.

I have first-hand information about a local situation in which a spouse has been diagnosed with COVID-19. This person works at a local health care facility. I will refer to this as Person A.

Person A was tested over the weekend and diagnosed yesterday.

Person A is currently in quarantine.

Person A’s spouse is Person B.

Person B works at another local health care facility. The facility is very much aware that Person B’s spouse has been diagnosed with COVID-19. Due to Person B being asymptomatic, Person B is expected to report to work.

All the while, the county health department will not test Person B because Person B is asymptomatic.

Again, your statement is simply far from being true.

Yes, this is one way the virus gets into such health care facilities.

Again, it is very apparent insurance claims and Medicare claims are more important than preventing the spread.
Click to expand...

They cannot test asymptomatic people because there are not enough tests available, yet alone test the same person every day. If we could the COV problem would be solved. The US is about 4 billion tests short to attempt such a thing. It's that way around the world. They don't test any workers coming in and out of the hospitals either. They scan your temperature, ask a few questions...and if you pass you are permitted in. The same thing they do with new patients, The same as for employees at the nursing home.

If they started quarantining asymptomatic health care workers who have been exposed to someone else with COV, there would be no health care workers.

I think you are missing the point of what I'm saying. Not trying to say that nursing homes are completely isolated, they obviously are not and I'm using this example to show how dumb our current Stay At Home mandates are. But that nursing home entrance is at least much more screened and protected than you leaving the house to go to the supermarket with a mask on. So why would anyone think isolating everyone is going to work? You don't isolate everyone. Let COV run its course while doing the best you can practicing hygiene, social distancing, etc. Stay at home orders are worthless.
 
FHHSAHS said:
I agree


So, contrary to your earlier assertions that we just isolate the vulnerable, you now realize that was inaccurate? What exactly DO you want? Sacrifice the weak?

I'm going back thru the posts, and while I thought I had a bead on your idea for what we should be doing, I see you're now contradicting yourself. What SHOULD be done now? And dont say isolate the vulnerable, you already debunked yourself on that one.
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We should have been isolating the critical from the start and still should be doing it. Why do you think nursing homes and hospitals are not open to the public? That is called ISOLATING THE CRITICAL. But you are asking for this to be 100% full proof protection, which can never happen in any situation. You are probably one of those that say children die from this virus. Well no shit, but that doesn't mean children are at the same risk as an 85 year old with liver disease so we need to treat them the same.

Just answer this question...Are you more concerned with an 85 year old or a 63 year old person with diabetes than a heathy 8 year old? I would sure hope so. We should be isolating the two with every possible means. But it still can't be full proof.
 
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Again, stop spouting BS.

The local health care facilities are not all taking temperatures.

Trust me, if I have a loved one pass due to negligence (aka not testing a spouse of a person who has been diagnosed), I would sue for such negligence. It is reprehensible that we are even having this discussion.

Then again, the POTUS spouts everyday there is enough testing.

What a friggin lie!
 
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MCsoccerplex said:
Again, stop spouting BS.

The local health care facilities are not all taking temperatures.

Trust me, if I have a loved one pass due to negligence (aka not testing a spouse of a person who has been diagnosed), I would sue for such negligence. It is reprehensible that we are even having this discussion.

Then again, the POTUS spouts everyday there is enough testing.

What a friggin lie!
Click to expand...

Try to walk into the hospital and see what happens. Just make an appointment to have lab work done and watch what you have to go through to get in. I'm sitting here now talking to one of the heads at UMPC Cumberland. Trust me, no workers can get in without a brief screening (it's taking a temperature and asking a few questions, mandatory wash/sanitize, put on a mask). A nurse with me now just said they refer to it as the "cattle line". But they have zero way to test workers on a daily basis. Do you even know how long it takes to get a COV test result? With most tests it's more than 24 hours. And you are demanding to have this done daily for every worker? Not possible.

Again...THERE WOULD BE NO HEALTH CARE WORKERS, DOCTORS OR NURSES IF THEY WERE QUARANTINED FOR 14 DAYS WITH NO SYMPTOMS just because they came in contact with someone who is infected!!!!!!!! Doctors and nurses are around patients who have COV all day and all night.What do you think they do at hospitals. LOL

I'm not sure if I'm reading your posts correctly. Are you saying we have enough tests in America? If so Gov. Hogan's purchase of tests from South Korea was a waste of my tax dollars.

I will say again though...because we do not agree, this should not keep us from respecting each other. I am rather am happy we can have this heated debate. I hope you will feel the same way about me. I have always enjoyed you being on this forum :) <thumbs up><smiley face>
 
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MCsoccerplex said:
Again, stop spouting BS.

The local health care facilities are not all taking temperatures.

Trust me, if I have a loved one pass due to negligence (aka not testing a spouse of a person who has been diagnosed), I would sue for such negligence. It is reprehensible that we are even having this discussion.

Then again, the POTUS spouts everyday there is enough testing.

What a friggin lie!
Click to expand...

"Again, stop spouting BS."

Glad I'm not the only one that sees it.. Lol smh
 
bigsavage said:
"At least 28,000 more people have died during the coronavirus pandemic over the last month than the official Covid-19 death counts report, a review of mortality data in 11 countries shows"

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely. Good link. Reporting even far worse in third world countries. What is happening in Ecuador is insane. Bodies wrapped in plastic left to rot on the sidewalks until the dump truck can come by, and it is 110 degrees there on the equator. It's reading things like this that make me realize I bitch way too much about living in the USA.

PERSPECTIVE is good for us all sometime.
 
MCsoccerplex said:
If folks truly knew of the bureaucratic situation that is occurring from state to state in this community they would truly say, “What the heck?”

People are trying to do ethical and humane practices to protect the most vulnerable and are being denied the opportunity to do so - all in the name of producing insurance and/or Medicare claims.

Unbelievable!

Furthermore, for those who trust the Trump administration that there is significant testing available, simply look at the headlines of today’s Cumberland Times-News.

Enough said.
Click to expand...
You ruined it when you referenced the Cumberland times news
 
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COVID-19 Numbers Are Bad In Ecuador. The President Says The Real Story Is Even Worse


OUCH!
 
TDHelmick said:
Try to walk into the hospital and see what happens. Just make an appointment to have lab work done and watch what you have to go through to get in. I'm sitting here now talking to one of the heads at UMPC Cumberland. Trust me, no workers can get in without a brief screening (it's taking a temperature and asking a few questions, mandatory wash/sanitize, put on a mask). A nurse with me now just said they refer to it as the "cattle line". But they have zero way to test workers on a daily basis. Do you even know how long it takes to get a COV test result? With most tests it's more than 24 hours. And you are demanding to have this done daily for every worker? Not possible.

Again...THERE WOULD BE NO HEALTH CARE WORKERS, DOCTORS OR NURSES IF THEY WERE QUARANTINED FOR 14 DAYS WITH NO SYMPTOMS just because they came in contact with someone who is infected!!!!!!!! Doctors and nurses are around patients who have COV all day and all night.What do you think they do at hospitals. LOL

I'm not sure if I'm reading your posts correctly. Are you saying we have enough tests in America? If so Gov. Hogan's purchase of tests from South Korea was a waste of my tax dollars.

I will say again though...because we do not agree, this should not keep us from respecting each other. I am rather am happy we can have this heated debate. I hope you will feel the same way about me. I have always enjoyed you being on this forum :) <thumbs up><smiley face>
Click to expand...

I am glad you have such close connections with those at UMPC.

Do I think we have enough tests? Absolutely not! Does the jack-butt of a POTUS say that we do? Every friggin day - he does.

My gosh, I honestly can’t imagine what a cluster this would be without Fauci and Birn (sp?).

Again, if a spouse has COVID-19, I would certainly test the other spouse, also a health care worker. The one health care facility has zero cases. It is rather negligent to permit a person to come to work there knowing full well an employee’s spouse has the virus.

Test the employee. Give the employee two days off until results come back. If the results come back negative, the person reports to work. Otherwise, the person does not and who knows how many people are not compromised.

Yes, I know how long it takes to get the results. In fact, I mentioned it above, but you obviously missed it.

Peace be with you.
 
Last edited:
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