Where does BW basketball go?

[TDHelmick]

LINK: Dan Prete to leave Bishop Walsh; Spartans return to local basketball schedule​

It will be interesting to see who the Spartans do play and what the roster looks like. This obviously means BW is out of the NIBC. Lots of questions remain I'm sure.

I knew when they hired Coach Prete he would not be in Cumberland for the long haul. He has bounced around quite a few places, which is usually the norm for any coach.

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

as a BW alum, My question from the headline is Why would local schools schedule them? I would tell them to go lay an egg and not schedule them in any sports.
Your Problem is NOT MY PROBLEM!!

 

[TDHelmick]

as a BW alum, My question from the headline is Why would local schools schedule them? I would tell them to go lay an egg and not schedule them in any sports.
Your Problem is NOT MY PROBLEM!!

I wasn't sure what "local schools" meant. Does that mean Hyndman and Northern or DC/Baltimore type Catholic teams? I don't believe BW has the enrollment to piece together a competitive program from just Allegany County students. Is the basketball dorm history?

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

I think they plan on having their regular team of locals back and a few exchange students like that played on the second team the past few seasons and scheduling FH,Alco, M. Ridge, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire just like the old days. I just don't know why any of them would even consider it.
I liked watching the players they brought in play in some of those games on TV and streaming but I'm not sure why or how they thought that was bringing them any money, if anything it was keeping local athletes from enrolling at BW.

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

Is the basketball dorm history?

from what I've heard yes...

 

[otnorot]

Saw that the NIBC added Brewster Academy for next year. Was BW forced out?

 

[ravemwp]

I think they plan on having their regular team of locals back and a few exchange students like that played on the second team the past few seasons and scheduling FH,Alco, M. Ridge, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire just like the old days. I just don't know why any of them would even consider it.
I liked watching the players they brought in play in some of those games on TV and streaming but I'm not sure why or how they thought that was bringing them any money, if anything it was keeping local athletes from enrolling at BW.

The reason why others would consider playing them is because, while no likes getting their brains beaten out, everyone else would love nothing better than to beat the brakes off of BW. Every coach and AD will take an easy win. Especially not having to travel to far to get it. The better question may be why should BW schedule any of them. I would schedule only the smaller Christian schools in MD. W.Va. and Pa.

 

[Bleedred4life]

I doubt that a BW team, with a few exchange students, would get their brains beat out by local teams. I wish that Basketball was better in this area but it's not. They will probably be competitive with almost every local team this coming year.

 

[ravemwp]

I doubt that a BW team, with a few exchange students, would get their brains beat out by local teams. I wish that Basketball was better in this area but it's not. They will probably be competitive with almost every local team this coming year.

As of now, there will be no exchange students for sports purposes. I guess this could change in the future, but as for now they will have maybe 40 total local boys grades 9-12 to pick from, whos reasons for being at BW are strictly academic. This current administration thinks of athletics, as an extension of non- competive gym class. In any case this equals getting the brakes beaten off of you. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Bleedred4life]

Wow, I'm thinking that you may be right. The good news is that in basketball, one or two kids can make a big difference.

 

[BurgundyHoops]

I don't see how BW can build a "local" program. Hell, a big part of the reason they started the program was because they couldn't compete in basketball. I think the school may be dangerously close to a death spiral: why would any parent send their kids to a school with little to no extra curriculars at the HS level.

Otherwise, losing the dorm and not being able to develop quickly enough into the type of program the NIBC was looking for may have made it an easy call for them. I think its a combo why things unfolded WRT the league/program being dropped.

All of which begs they question: what was it that prevented this program from succeeding at BW? It certainly wasn't local support (or lack thereof) IMO. Afterall, it was entirely based on students from outside the area and most of their games were away.

 

[Waggle Pass]

Sounds like Prete bit off more than he could chew. Should have started with a more regional schedule of Pittsburgh, DC, Baltimore, Philly schools. Then build from that.

 

[BurgundyHoops]

Sounds like Prete bit off more than he could chew. Should have started with a more regional schedule of Pittsburgh, DC, Baltimore, Philly schools. Then build from that.

No disagreement there. According to one person I spoke to (not a BW or local person) the program wasn’t established enough to get kids to come out to western md so recruiting was a struggle. And by “established”, they had no big name player that had gone through it with Prete at BW.

Brewster is way the hell up in NH but they have 4 guys in the league right now from their program, for example.

 

[TDHelmick]

All of which begs they question: what was it that prevented this program from succeeding at BW? It certainly wasn't local support (or lack thereof) IMO.

I have talked to several people directly involved. I am told there is not one single clear cut reason why the BW national program folded. This thing has several branches. Much of it however had to do with support and I'm not talking about fan support. Leave it at that. This part of the world in these mountains is not exactly a forward thinking basketball concept world. Some people/admins maybe but not all the powers that be on Haystack. True however, not being in the NIBC or at least not being competitive in the NIBC played some roles.

Did an impending lawsuit concerning the death of a BW basketball student while living in the dorm play a factor? I was asked this and the answer is that thing has been so hush-hush I have no idea. No one talks about it, including lawyers or the media, or even brings it up so I assume, "No, it did not directly influence decisions." How this topic has been so hush-hush is an amazing small town concept I can't quite grasp and that's all I can say due to ignorance. My input in that matter would be nothing but pure speculation on a sensitive topic. Of which, for the record, I have not heard anything bad in this divorce - just two sides moving on.

Local fan support was never an issue for the reason you stated. Most of the games were on the road and even the games they did play in Allegany County, whether well attended or not, are irrelevant pennies when it comes to bearing the cost of putting such a program together. The local support BW required was not in the form of fannies in the seats but more about fannies (students) enrolled in the school. Did the basketball program help those numbers? Probably a hair so I am told, but not significantly. If BW has a death spiral, like most things in Cumberland, it's lack of a population. Moreso lack of a population with money. Nike or whomever was funding this basketball endeavor cannot erase the cost of graduating classes with less than 20 kids.

There are also BW opinions that say Coach Prete moving on is his MO. Most people knew this long ago, which of course is quite common in today's coaching carousels.

Trying to make BW competitive strictly competing against the Baltimore/DC corridor of private entities is not an easy solution either. There is little reason why say a DC high school basketball player would leave DC to attend a tiny school in Cumberland while competing against the same teams he would have competed against attending school in DC. At least the NIBC afforded kids the opportunity to compete nationally against the best and worked as an advantageous powerful recruiting tool.

 

[TDHelmick]

I have talked to several people directly involved. I am told there is not one single clear cut reason why the BW national program folded. This thing has several branches. Much of it however had to do with support and I'm not talking about fan support. Leave it at that. This part of the world in these mountains is not exactly a forward thinking basketball concept world. Some people/admins maybe but not all the powers that be on Haystack. True however, not being in the NIBC or at least not being competitive in the NIBC played some roles.

Local fan support was never an issue for the reason you stated. Most of the games were on the road and even the games they did play in Allegany County, whether well attended or not, are irrelevant pennies when it comes to bearing the cost of putting such a program together. The local support BW required was not in the form of fannies in the seats but more about fannies (students) enrolled in the school. Did the basketball program help those numbers? Probably a hair so I am told, but not significantly. If BW has a death spiral, like most things in Cumberland, it's lack of a population. Moreso lack of a population with money. Nike or whomever was funding this basketball endeavor cannot erase the cost of graduating classes with less than 20 kids.

There are also BW opinions that say Coach Prete moving on is his MO. Most people knew this long ago, which of course is not abnormal in today's coaching carousels.

Trying to make BW competitive strictly competing against the Baltimore/DC corridor of private entities is not an easy solution either. There is little reason why say a DC high school basketball player would leave DC to attend a tiny school in Cumberland while competing against the same teams he would have competed against attending school in DC. At least the NIBC afforded kids the opportunity to compete nationally against the best.

BW FOOTBALL
All this is reason why I never felt a BW football program would work. Those numbers to achieve such a thing as a national football power - or even one that is competitive at a state/local level, requires so many more bodies and so much more effort/cost. Sure, you can try and pull off what a St. James in Washington County is trying to do, which is kindof what I saw BW moving towards if they really wanted football back again. Much like basketball, trying to compete in football against the DeMatha, Gonzaga, Mount St. Joseph's of the world is not possible here or in Washington County.

The problem in pulling off a football St. James is that you now need a significant amount of local players to go along with whatever you could fit into a dorm from areas outside these local walls. Which case would likely end football programs at some of the other local surrounding schools should you succeed. That would have literally meant a death fight and the spit balling measures that have been discussed to curb such a thing happening were drastic. I would go so far to say that if BW had ever attempted such a thing they would have found the Allegany County Schools dropping them in every single sport if not in Mineral County as well. Again, this would have been a matter of football program survival for everyone because we are all super tiny in this area now. This is not the 1970s anymore as some of the older residents will never be mentally capable of acknowledging.

Absolutely, football is a different animal than basketball...or any other sport for that matter due to not just physicality/attrition but to the numbers required. When you have a 17 man football roster, it's beyond brutal to compete.

 

[BurgundyHoops]

solid. I had also heard some similar versions of what you reference. many branches on this tree of reasons. In order for BW to survive, allegany county and cumberland are going to need more than rolling mill "developments". Probably the same is true with the other area schools. Just a bit disappointing to see something with promise i.e., a national program in the area, go to waste as a result of some backward mentalities (among other things)

 

[ravemwp]

Yes there are many tentacles to this story. Most importantly was the non-support of the current administration, which was not in place with the programs inception. While the basketball program neither made or cost the school any money in basketball revenue, it did account for 30-35 high school tuitions. The chances of this programs success was shakey at best. In order to build a program of which BW wanted takes a long term commitment from everyone involved. I'm not sure anyone thought just how much. On a side note I want to tell a story about what high school basketball at this level has turned into over the last several years. AJ Swinton played his freshman, and sophmore years at Dematha, and became a nationally ranked player. Last year his junior season he transferred from Dematha to Oak Hill Academy, left Oak Hill after the first semester to transfer and play for Sierra Canyon in Los Angeles with Bronny James the second semester. Swinton just recently announced he is returning to the DC area to play for Bishop O'Connell in Northern Va. Thats 4 high schools 18 months. Swinton is one of thousands of young men traveling all over the country trying to find their best fit. It seems to be getting way out of control. In a conversation with Coach Prete the other day, he told me its only the tip of the iceberg. It is going to get worse. I'm not so upset about losing the national program, but I am a little concerned about athletics in general at BW. The loss of those boys who played on the Burgandy team, who were here for the American experience, and not just basketball will be felt, not only did they get to feel the American way, they also educated classmates, and adults about their home culture as well. I believe youth sports as well as high school team sports are very instrumental in our childrens growth. I hope that if BW is able to keeps its doors open it can find a way to make athletics a little more important than a glorified gym class.

 

[cumbfanatic]

Talking about getting crazy IMG Academy is selling for 1.25 Billion. Is that normal?

 

[TDHelmick]

Yes there are many tentacles to this story. Most importantly was the non-support of the current administration, which was not in place with the programs inception. While the basketball program neither made or cost the school any money in basketball revenue, it did account for 30-35 high school tuitions. The chances of this programs success was shakey at best. In order to build a program of which BW wanted takes a long term commitment from everyone involved. I'm not sure anyone thought just how much. On a side note I want to tell a story about what high school basketball at this level has turned into over the last several years. AJ Swinton palyed his freshman, and sophmore years at Dematha, and became a nationally ranked player. Last year his junior season he transferred from Dematha to Oak Hill Academy, left Oak Hill after the first semester to transfer and play for Sierra Canyon in Los Angeles with Bronny James the second semester. Swinton just recently announced he is returning to the DC area to play for Bishop O'Connell in Northern Va. Thats 4 high schools 18 months. Swinton is one of thousands of young men traveling all over the country trying to find their best fit. It seems to be getting way out of control. In a conversation with Coach Prete the other day, he told me its only the tip of the iceberg. It is going to get worse. I'm not so upset about losing the national program, but I am a little concerned about athletics in general at BW. The loss of those boys who played on the Burgandy team, who were here for the American experience, and not just basketball will be felt, not only did they get to feel the American way, they also educated classmates, and adults about their home culture as well. I believe youth sports as well as high school team sports are very instrumental in our childrens growth. I hope that if BW is able to keeps its doors open it can find a way to make athletics a little more important than a glorified gym class.

Your second sentence summed up the main reason I was told.

The "transfer portal" mentality has permeated all levels of athletics. From college all the way down to tee ball. This is no longer about finding a better fit, it's about a narcissistic personality disorder - a disorder in which a person (and more important in parent's feelings about their child) has an inflated sense of self-importance.

<def>
Narcissistic personality disorder is found more commonly in men. The cause is unknown but likely involves a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement.

According to the most recent statistics, more than 6,000 NCAA football players have entered the transfer portal since December. The largest number yet recorded.

 

[Waggle Pass]

Your second sentence summed up the main reason I was told.

The "transfer portal" mentality has permeated all levels of athletics. From college all the way down to tee ball. This is no longer about finding a better fit, it's about a narcissistic personality disorder - a disorder in which a person (and more important in parent's feelings about their child) has an inflated sense of self-importance.

<def>
Narcissistic personality disorder is found more commonly in men. The cause is unknown but likely involves a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement.

According to the most recent statistics, more than 6,000 NCAA football players have entered the transfer portal since December. The largest number yet recorded.

5,000 of those from Colorado.

 

[ravemwp]

Your second sentence summed up the main reason I was told.

The "transfer portal" mentality has permeated all levels of athletics. From college all the way down to tee ball. This is no longer about finding a better fit, it's about a narcissistic personality disorder - a disorder in which a person (and more important in parent's feelings about their child) has an inflated sense of self-importance.

<def>
Narcissistic personality disorder is found more commonly in men. The cause is unknown but likely involves a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement.

According to the most recent statistics, more than 6,000 NCAA football players have entered the transfer portal since December. The largest number yet recorded.

Agree about the narcissistic explanation. I guess I was trying to find a nicer way to say it. These parents keep creating problems with their children, and their egos. Story of a dynamic 2024 basketball player Bryson Tucker from Mount Saint Joe in Baltimore. He may be one of the most talented in his class nationally. His father took him home after the 2nd game of 2022 ACIT, unhappy with coach. Sent him to IMG for junior season, left there midseason. Who knows where he will wind up next. As for the college portal. I was dumbfounded when I realized that Tyrell Pigrome was the starting QB at Towson U. last season as a 7th year senior. He started at Maryland in 2016 as a freshman. I think he is the same age as Lamar Jackson. It is way out of control. I believe that Tavin Willis, and Uma made a very wise decision to go play a year of prep school ball and reclassify to 2024. It is my understanding that both have already recieved better offers since their reclassification. I guess some schools have more availability after these 6 and 7 year seniors finally use up all of their eligibility. Its really been tough on the 2022, 2023 high school seniors. Mikey Allen probably should have taken the same route. Get more reps against better competition, and let some scholarships open up. In any case yes it is way out of control, and hopefully the adults in the room will realize that some of their decisions are not really benefiting their childern in the long run.