Zero Tolerance

[theprocessworks]

I happen to know a guy that played on LSU’s 2004 National title team. He was recruited by, and played for Nick Saban. He told me that Saban told him that he had a zero tolerance policy. Any F ups and if a player didn’t meet the standard they were gone. I know it sounds old school and what we all always here now a days is “you can’t coach like that these days”. Alkire even made a reference to this in his post game interview after the Southern game. So my question is this, so to coach these days does one have to be a jellyfish? You tell a kid to do something and the kid says “F that” what do you do? I’m confused. I’m not saying I have the answer, I’m just saying that the adult has to be in charge. At Moutain Ridge I assure you that the adults run the show. Could someone shed light on this? I’ve been out of the picture for a while. I coached varsity girls basketball in 2018 and FH football in 2009. I had wonderful relationships with all the players I coached. And I assure you I was no jellyfish.

 

[theprocessworks]

And I don’t want to hear any BS about Appel! I grew up with Appel. I coached with Appel and he got rid of me in 2009 which I believe was a huge mistake on his part. He ran a tight ship but he didn’t have a zero tolerance policy! no one and I mean No one was more invested in that school or football program than Todd Appel! But Todd even overlooked some things along the way with certain kids. I’m not saying he was right, or wrong in those instances, and If you’re reading this Todd, which I know you are, you know what I’m talking about. No one is perfect in this scenario. Not even Nick Saban. I sure as hell wouldn’t be either. But when I hear the bullshonky I’m hearing lately about FH football I just want to ask 1 question, can there be a healthier balance between “coaching these days” and jellyfish leadership? I would like all who read this to respond please because I think the sharing of ideas over this matter could be beneficial. Make no mistake I want more than anything for the young athletes of south cumerland to have a valuable experience that shapes them in a way that leads to a good life.

 

[ravemwp]

True leaders weather it be coaches or players lead by example. Things may be a little different today, but the same rules have to apply to everyone, even if you handle the individuals differently, meaning sometimes you get more out of one kid by yelling, and screaming, whereas you might get through to another by handling them a little differently. Yet at the end of the day the rules apply equally to all, from star players to the end of the bench. I'm not sure what you're alluding to here, as I am not aware or privy to what is going on at FH. I call this generation of kids as the look at me generation. I grew up and played with and against some best players of the mid 70s. Steve Trimble, Lyle Peck, Tom Perlozzo, Bruce Widdows, Tim Kane, Barry Latimer, among others. Not only were these guys some of the best players of those years, what they also had in common is that they were the best teammates. Leaders by example, team first, personal accolades last. Never knew any of these guys to have a look at me mentality. I'm guessing it's a generational thing. I am not a believer of this participatory world we live in today, it now spans multiple generations, the participatory kids of today now come from participatory parents of the past. The world has evolved and the games have too. Some things must remain the same TEAM FIRST. I think I remember Steve Trimble saying after FH won it's first state championship " I'm only as good as the guys around me." Arguably one of the best to ever come out of Cumberland, gave all credit to his teammates, and never once said look at me. True leader. I credit his family, his coaches, and a society that taught you if you want something work for it, no short cuts, be humble, and be a great teammate. Not sure if this is what response you were looking for, but reading your post took me here. Can't even begin to imagine a player telling Charlie Latimer no. Hell he would have kicked his own son off the team. Different times.

 

[cumbfanatic]

Any insight on the Patriots player that got ejected last week, but is playing in the playoff game this week? At the middle school level the players should be held accountable for there actions. Also, he is a star player that should be showing leadership.

 

[TDHelmick]

Any insight on the Patriots player that got ejected last week, but is playing in the playoff game this week? At the middle school level the players should be held accountable for there actions. Also, he is a star player that should be showing leadership.

D2 playoffs start the following week for most teams. He won't play this week at Hollidaysburg. These are games I scheduled for everyone back in August. Braddock just played a D1 and D2 double header at Hollidaysburg just two weekends ago. And Hollidaysburg also came to Mountain Ridge in Week 5. They are real games with referees, time clocks and scoreboards. They follow all NHFS rules.

I agree any player who gets ejected has to follow the rules. They have to sit a game. But I don't agree with picking and choosing which games they have to sit based on competition disputes.

I did all I could this past summer trying to fill all the bye weeks for our CAYFL kids. Learned a lot about youth league systems and rules. For those interested here was the link I provided for all of our league coaches. The non-league games are all in red.

CAYFL NON-LEAGUE SCHEDULE

Looking forward to continuing these non-league relationships next fall because for me it's about making sure all kids here and there who put in the time get to play games. We already have a good deal in place with the Martinsburg Area League.

 

[TDHelmick]

True leaders weather it be coaches or players lead by example. Things may be a little different today, but the same rules have to apply to everyone, even if you handle the individuals differently, meaning sometimes you get more out of one kid by yelling, and screaming, whereas you might get through to another by handling them a little differently. Yet at the end of the day the rules apply equally to all, from star players to the end of the bench. I'm not sure what you're alluding to here, as I am not aware or privy to what is going on at FH. I call this generation of kids as the look at me generation. I grew up and played with and against some best players of the mid 70s. Steve Trimble, Lyle Peck, Tom Perlozzo, Bruce Widdows, Tim Kane, Barry Latimer, among others. Not only were these guys some of the best players of those years, what they also had in common is that they were the best teammates. Leaders by example, team first, personal accolades last. Never knew any of these guys to have a look at me mentality. I'm guessing it's a generational thing. I am not a believer of this participatory world we live in today, it now spans multiple generations, the participatory kids of today now come from participatory parents of the past. The world has evolved and the games have too. Some things must remain the same TEAM FIRST. I think I remember Steve Trimble saying after FH won it's first state championship " I'm only as good as the guys around me." Arguably one of the best to ever come out of Cumberland, gave all credit to his teammates, and never once said look at me. True leader. I credit his family, his coaches, and a society that taught you if you want something work for it, no short cuts, be humble, and be a great teammate. Not sure if this is what response you were looking for, but reading your post took me here. Can't even begin to imagine a player telling Charlie Latimer no. Hell he would have kicked his own son off the team. Different times.

These are different times. I need to contemplate this subject a little more to see if I have a legit response. I can say many of these issues have to do with society's breakdown of the parental structure. Too many kids today do not get the love, support, discipline and the teaching of respect for others from their home. Many parents are worse than the child. Monkey see, monkey do. Some are lucky to even have a parental guardian at all. Now the coach has to become the role model and disciplinarian. You can start kicking kids off the team for their behavior until you are left with no one. And the child is left with no one. So many children need athletics and structure and don't even realize it. It's bad across the board right now.

I see a lot of underprivileged student-athletes make it in college. But they are usually still good kids with a work ethic. If you don't have those two things forget college athletics. You can tell your high school or youth league coaches to "F off". Try that at the next level. Can't because their is another athlete waiting to take your place.

 

[theprocessworks]

Great post here! The gist of my post is the FH staff have loosened up too much. The players are telling them what they will and won’t do. A winning atmosphere is created by strong leadership. If there is not strong leadership and the team is not doing what good teams do on a daily basis, that team won’t last long at the top. Granted FH is 1 A. When you and I played we were 3A. Maybe they’ve been lulled to sleep by the weak competition of 1 A and don’t feel like they have to do these things. Mt Ridge is doing those things and they beat FH Friday night. They were the better team. I believe FH is the better team and if they get their heads out of their asses(coaches) they will win the rematch. It starts with first having high standards and ensuring that everyone stays within the boundaries of the culture that has been set. From what I have heard by sources close to the program and what I see as a guy that played the game, this hasn’t been happening. It was evident Friday. No time to cater to the kids. Take charge and make it happen. If a kid bucks and tries to challenge you, they gotta go. That simple.

 

[ravemwp]

These are different times. I need to contemplate this subject a little more to see if I have a legit response. I can say many of these issues have to do with society's breakdown of the parental structure. Too many kids today do not get the love, support, discipline and the teaching of respect for others from their home. Many parents are worse than the child. Monkey see, monkey do. Some are lucky to even have a parental guardian at all. Now the coach has to become the role model and disciplinarian. You can start kicking kids off the team for their behavior until you are left with no one. And the child is left with no one. So many children need athletics and structure and don't even realize it. It's bad across the board right now.

I see a lot of underprivileged student-athletes make it in college. But they are usually still good kids with a work ethic. If you don't have those two things forget college athletics. You can tell your high school or youth league coaches to "F off". Try that at the next level. Can't because their is another athlete waiting to take your place.

I can't disagree with anything you said. Today's culture, and society acceptance has changed so much over the years. That being said it is that much more important that the Adults, (coaches) become even more adamant about discipline and teamwork. The rules are the rules and they apply to everyone. The coaches must inforce them to all. Most kids choose to play TEAM sports. While I'm sure some are forced by overbearing parents. My point is that you have a choice to play or not to play, if you don't want to play by the rules set forth by the coaching staff, then do everyone a favor and don't play. I said that it is not wrong to handle individuals differently so long as you handle the situation equally. I totally agree that some of the parents are worse than the players. Listen I'm an old guy, and I know that in this day and age you can't grab a kid by the face mask and shake him, or make them run laps until they drop, but you have to instill discipline just the same. My statement about kicking kids off the team was more or less a reminder of how things used to be. The coaches ran the show, you either conformed or you were gone. Just because society has changed doesn't mean everything has to change. Basic principles the coaches are in charge. Coaches coach, players play, and yes it is the coaches responsibility to set the rules and the players responsibility to follow. Again I'm not sure if I'm answering what the original poster is asking, or if or what discipline issues there are at FH, I certainly don't see any, but I'm not privy. I'm am all but positive that this goes on at every program in every sport. Today's star athletics are a little different in this day and age. I did notice FH came out flat and sloppy against MR. I just attributed that to a letdown after the Oakdale game. Not discipline problems at FH. At the end of the day I am a fan of the student athletes getting the best opportunity to succeed in life. That should also be the mission of the coaching staff. Win or lose, learn from what happened. Life lessons are sometimes formed from team first lessons.

 

[cumbfanatic]

D2 playoffs start the following week for most teams. He won't play this week at Hollidaysburg. These are games I scheduled for everyone back in August. Braddock just played a D1 and D2 double header at Hollidaysburg just two weekends ago. And Hollidaysburg also came to Mountain Ridge in Week 5. They are real games with referees, time clocks and scoreboards. They follow all NHFS rules.

I agree any player who gets ejected has to follow the rules. They have to sit a game. But I don't agree with picking and choosing which games they have to sit based on competition disputes.

I did all I could this past summer trying to fill all the bye weeks for our CAYFL kids. Learned a lot about youth league systems and rules. For those interested here was the link I provided for all of our league coaches. The non-league games are all in red.

CAYFL NON-LEAGUE SCHEDULE

Looking forward to continuing these non-league relationships next fall because for me it's about making sure all kids here and there who put in the time get to play games. We already have a good deal in place with the Martinsburg Area League.

Thank you for the clarification that makes sense

 

[TDHelmick]

I can't disagree with anything you said. Today's culture, and society acceptance has changed so much over the years. That being said it is that much more important that the Adults, (coaches) become even more adamant about discipline and teamwork. The rules are the rules and they apply to everyone. The coaches must inforce them to all. Most kids choose to play TEAM sports. While I'm sure some are forced by overbearing parents. My point is that you have a choice to play or not to play, if you don't want to play by the rules set forth by the coaching staff, then do everyone a favor and don't play. I said that it is not wrong to handle individuals differently so long as you handle the situation equally. I totally agree that some of the parents are worse than the players. Listen I'm an old guy, and I know that in this day and age you can't grab a kid by the face mask and shake him, or make them run laps until they drop, but you have to instill discipline just the same. My statement about kicking kids off the team was more or less a reminder of how things used to be. The coaches ran the show, you either conformed or you were gone. Just because society has changed doesn't mean everything has to change. Basic principles the coaches are in charge. Coaches coach, players play, and yes it is the coaches responsibility to set the rules and the players responsibility to follow. Again I'm not sure if I'm answering what the original poster is asking, or if or what discipline issues there are at FH, I certainly don't see any, but I'm not privy. I'm am all but positive that this goes on at every program in every sport. Today's star athletics are a little different in this day and age. I did notice FH came out flat and sloppy against MR. I just attributed that to a letdown after the Oakdale game. Not discipline problems at FH. At the end of the day I am a fan of the student athletes getting the best opportunity to succeed in life. That should also be the mission of the coaching staff. Win or lose, learn from what happened. Life lessons are sometimes formed from team first lessons.

This is why I am extremely hateful of the Transfer Portal ideals. It's a Me Machine. A "I can't handle adversity portal". The adults are the problem for creating the environment we have.

 

[FHHSAHS]

I am not hearing chatter about there being "discipline problems" at FH from any angle. Coaches, players, parents...I've communicated with all of those groups, and that's not what I'm hearing.

The bottom line is FH is not used to losing, especially not to local schools. These current coaches and players have not lost very many games in years. As underclassmen or youth leaguers, the current varsity players probably have not lost more than 2 games in the past 5 years. Hell, have they lost at all?

So, in an effort to NOT overthink the loss as some telltale sign that there is some "problem" with the Fort Hill program, just understand that sometimes you lose. Sometimes you lose to an outright better team, sometimes you lose to an equal team that just outplayed/outcoached you, and sometimes you lose because you just drop a turd of an effort on the field regardless of your opponent.

I think the FH loss to MR is a combination of the latter two, with much more emphasis on an equal team doing a better job at coaching and playing - with a little bit of turd droppage occurring as well.

It's okay to lose. These kids and coaches just haven't done that in a very long time. Hopefully this makes them realize that winning is much more fun than losing and they play better next time. I'm sure there is some societal aspect to SOME of the players' attitudes, but the heads being down and the evaporation of the effort late in the game for the FH players was due to not knowing what it feels like to lose and/or fight for a win. You need to lose at some point to understand what it means to win. I thought FH did an exceptional job fighting back in the Old Mill game, but you also have to add in a variable that MR had a very specific geared game plan to beat FH.

Old Mill just imposed their will on FH until FH broke it. Two VERY different games and game plans and opponents. I told my buddies after the Old Mill game that the MR game was a much better match-up, however I did not expect the Miners to be as well prepped and planned as they were. Mea culpa on that front.

Anyhoo, stop overthinking it...FH lost. Sometimes they will. And they need to occasionally.

If you really want to have a discussion, lets talk about the absolute ridiculousness of many of the FH fans who can't handle losing even more than the kids. Calling for Alkire's head after one loss? Screaming hateful, damn near horrific obscenities at, well...anyone not wearing red? As a collective, FH fans are definitely passionate, and I love that. But in far too many cases, we have a SERIOUS problem with a bunch of assholes in the stands. Jesus. I stood on the MR sideline to watch the second half of the game because I couldn't take some of the shit being spewed from our stands. Vulgar. Mean. Completely unneccesary.

Alright, I'm done.

 

[ravemwp]

I am not hearing chatter about there being "discipline problems" at FH from any angle. Coaches, players, parents...I've communicated with all of those groups, and that's not what I'm hearing.

The bottom line is FH is not used to losing, especially not to local schools. These current coaches and players have not lost very many games in years. As underclassmen or youth leaguers, the current varsity players probably have not lost more than 2 games in the past 5 years. Hell, have they lost at all?

So, in an effort to NOT overthink the loss as some telltale sign that there is some "problem" with the Fort Hill program, just understand that sometimes you lose. Sometimes you lose to an outright better team, sometimes you lose to an equal team that just outplayed/outcoached you, and sometimes you lose because you just drop a turd of an effort on the field regardless of your opponent.

I think the FH loss to MR is a combination of the latter two, with much more emphasis on an equal team doing a better job at coaching and playing - with a little bit of turd droppage occurring as well.

It's okay to lose. These kids and coaches just haven't done that in a very long time. Hopefully this makes them realize that winning is much more fun than losing and they play better next time. I'm sure there is some societal aspect to SOME of the players' attitudes, but the heads being down and the evaporation of the effort late in the game for the FH players was due to not knowing what it feels like to lose and/or fight for a win. You need to lose at some point to understand what it means to win. I thought FH did an exceptional job fighting back in the Old Mill game, but you also have to add in a variable that MR had a very specific geared game plan to beat FH.

Old Mill just imposed their will on FH until FH broke it. Two VERY different games and game plans and opponents. I told my buddies after the Old Mill game that the MR game was a much better match-up, however I did not expect the Miners to be as well prepped and planned as they were. Mea culpa on that front.

Anyhoo, stop overthinking it...FH lost. Sometimes they will. And they need to occasionally.

If you really want to have a discussion, lets talk about the absolute ridiculousness of many of the FH fans who can't handle losing even more than the kids. Calling for Alkire's head after one loss? Screaming hateful, damn near horrific obscenities at, well...anyone not wearing red? As a collective, FH fans are definitely passionate, and I love that. But in far too many cases, we have a SERIOUS problem with a bunch of assholes in the stands. Jesus. I stood on the MR sideline to watch the second half of the game because I couldn't take some of the shit being spewed from our stands. Vulgar. Mean. Completely unneccesary.
Othe
Alright, I'm done.

I said something similar on another thread yesterday. I too have not seen or heard of any discipline issues at FH, other than the same issues that every program faces in every sport. Sometimes you lose a game because the other team was better than you that particular day. Although I sat on the MR side as well and heard lots of distain for FH. Mostly from adults, mostly directed at certain Individual players. Hey I am all about rooting for your team, and celebrating such a big win, kudos to MR and their student body. It does bother me that some adults were there solely to root for failure of a certain few FH athletes. Heard some pretty nasty things said about the certain few. In any case, root for yours to win, never root for a student athlete to fail. That falls right in line with cheering opposing players getting hurt. It should always be about the student athletes, and their growth as young adults. Stop rooting for failure.

 

[Dwj21]

I said something similar on another thread yesterday. I too have not seen or heard of any discipline issues at FH, other than the same issues that every program faces in every sport. Sometimes you lose a game because the other team was better than you that particular day. Although I sat on the MR side as well and heard lots of distain for FH. Mostly from adults, mostly directed at certain Individual players. Hey I am all about rooting for your team, and celebrating such a big win, kudos to MR and their student body. It does bother me that some adults were there solely to root for failure of a certain few FH athletes. Heard some pretty nasty things said about the certain few. In any case, root for yours to win, never root for a student athlete to fail. That falls right in line with cheering opposing players getting hurt. It should always be about the student athletes, and their growth as young adults. Stop rooting for failure.

This is not surprising..