Everybody was Kung Flu fighting.... It spread as fast as lightning..... (Other than rage with no one to take it out on.... laugh.)
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- Thread starter TDHelmick
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Because viruses get transmitted. That's how they work. You can isolate the old people for a week? two weeks? Three months? but then when theyre out of isolation, they give little Johnny a big hug...and they get the latent virus still present everywhere. The virus will still circulate whether kids get it or transmit it or otherwise. The bug has to make its way through damn near the entire population.
How long are you going to round up all the elderly and put them in these isolation camps? What age do you start abducting productive citizens and put them in quarantine simply because they are old? 55? 65?
How long are you going to round up all the elderly and put them in these isolation camps? What age do you start abducting productive citizens and put them in quarantine simply because they are old? 55? 65?
Mild social distancing with self quarantining the elderly for a few weeks to see how it shakes out fine. But shutting everything down and wrecking the economy, to me, seems absurd. Any Kid that can drive is now out running around.... so closing schools and colleges was complete bullshit.
And, what are we going to do with the next caravan on its way to our boarder?
I'd say Age 30.......that way when you watch the old movie Logan's Run, you'll have some perspective.
Finally, someone who is willing to question my question. And please don't get mad...these types of debates are essential right now so I'm very thankful for a critical discussion. So we can disagree but keep a common goal of saving lives.
I will use your own words...By your summarized response you are asking EVERY person (not just old people) to be isolated for a week? two weeks? Three months? Mandates for confinement and isolation for EVERY person have already been adopted for places like NY and Northern Cal with many more mandates to come. So again, I am taken back by your initial response. Tell me again why it is OK to confine everyone, but not the just the critical. Is this your take...that if one person of any race, age, sex or health condition has to be confined than everyone does?
We are taking a massive chunk of society (under age 50) that has a ZERO death rate and are asking them to shut down their life from school, jobs, activities, etc. as we watch society collapse so the old and critical can be saved. Ridiculous. These under 50 groups should be permitted to carry on (with massive social distancing and hygiene practices in place of course) while they are also required to care for the critical. It is all our jobs to isolate and protect the critical.
If you understand what confine and isolate means - and I know you do - NO, you don't give little Johnny a big hug. That defeats the purpose of what confine and isolate means. NO, you don't put them in isolation camps. C'mon man, you isolate them in their home. We must treat the critical as if we all have CV. Isolate them from all of us.
Again, the fact people say EVERYONE must confine and isolate but it is not kosher to ask just the critical to do so is outlandish. It's is beyond my comprehension it's so insane. While I take this CV extremely serious, I also find that panic and social justice have absolutely warped this thing way past where it needed to be. Politicians (decision makers) are so afraid to even fart. They just fall in line like every shit leader does.
I will keep spitting this out...To keep the ice cube from melting you don't block the sun from everyone, you put the ice cube back in the freezer. The first thing the world should have mandated was that all critical people be confined and isolated immediately...as in weeks ago in the US. The fact no country did let's me know a good chunk of this of all this is political.
I'm betting your response is we protect the critical by isolating everyone. Fine...but we still should have isolated the critical as the first move. We have not. A travesty this is.
If they told me all white males between 50-55 were the death risk, yes isolate and confine me please. No offense taken. Flattening the curve for everyone is crucial. Flattening the curve for the critical is everything. I hope you do realize we are taking these extreme measures currently in place to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. The first step is to keep the critical out of the hospitals.
Thanks FHHSAHS for questioning my thoughts. This is needed and I value your input. Thumbs up.
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You really think there is a politician in the wurld that is going to isolate just a certain group of people? LOL, fantasyland.
Just this morning two grocery chains down here have announced a two hour early morning shopping time for seniors. This, of course, is a social discipline thing.... but the right thing... and hopefully this will spread. I don't know why the upper 'brain trust' of the nation doesn't put this type of thing out as a recommendation (Hey... USA.... capitalism adjusting!) . I think there should also be a midnight to 2AM shopping time... which seniors will not go to. Also... special middle-of-the-night theater viewings and such. This would allow for more businesses to stay open and have customers. Why the hell not?
Because young people are still getting sick. Recent data is showing that up to 20% of infected people ages 20-44 have been hospitalized, and 2%-4% are ICU. And these are taking beds away from not only seniors who may be infected, but people who may require hospitalization for other reasons such as heart disease, kidney failure, you name it. There is a ripple effect to all of this. One of the biggest fears gripping the health care community right now is that there is simply not enough beds and equipment to deal with everything. That is why the preventative measures apply to everyone, not just seniors.
I've seen stores offer shopping times just for seniors, and I think that is great. Obviously people need to shop for supplies, and I think this approach will help. There are still risks involved, though. The virus can live on surfaces for days, so if an infected somebody picked up a can of soup, put it back on the shelf, somebody picking it up the next day may contract the virus. For these reasons, something non-essential like a movie theater should be shut down.
I don't mean to sound like I'm not sympathetic to how this is going to affect livelihoods. It's a terrible situation. I wish there were better ways, but I'll defer to the opinion of the experts who advise that these are the actions that need to be followed because the alternatives could be even worse.
The world has/is not doing near enough to protect the critical.
First of all, the projected numbers about a young age group are too sketchy to be of any use. We just have the first child in MD with a positive test to the virus. The child is not sick enough to be in the hospital... rather, she is recuperating at home - that absolutely would not be the case with the H1N1 - a 5 year old would have spent some hospital time. The news, however, is rampant with how horrible this is and words like 'tragic' and 'justifiably scared' are being used. To them, polio is back with a vengeance.
If I were to extrapolate the posted numbers here then there might be up to 800 folks under 50 in ICU in this country. Believe me, if there were, it would be headline news.
They are shuttering the malls. Soon, everything but grocery stores will close. Of course, all government employees will get paid vacation while the private sector schmucks will lose their jobs. Many small businesses will not be able to reopen.
https://www.tmz.com/2020/03/19/34-y...ies-coronavirus-visited-disney-world-florida/
Coronavirus CA Man Dies at 34 Recently Visited Disney World in FL
When you finally get to the bottom of the page you find out.... cancer patient, severe asthma and chronic bronchitis.
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I am trying to do my part. Since many folks are avoiding Chinese restaurants unfairly, I brought home a large carry out of lung pao sicken for dinner.
I might have to go with the over on that. The teacher's lobby in the state is huge. They're getting paid regardless, so why not pressure their funded vacation as far out as possible.
Brings to mind the minimum wage grocery stiffs who are now working extended hours because others a not showing up. I went to the store late last night for a neighbor who didn't want to drag their young kids along. The guy stocking the soda aisle at 8PM had been there since 2AM that morning.
Think of what is going to happen to the businesses in Cumberland in another month or so: hospitals.... and grocery stores (if you can get anyone to show up and work) will be open and.... well, what else? Well, the government will be paid but closed, of course.
Some folks are paying the price of this shit while others are eyeing a new Orvis Helios fly rod.
And...... And, are the young folks honoring the lock downs????
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/03/18/08/26109226-8125045-image-a-1_1584520392124.jpg
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Gee! How did this work out for them??????
The mayor of Florence, Italy,
@DarioNardella
initiated "hug a Chinese" on Twitter on Feb 1, opposing anger toward China amid the #nCoV2019 outbreak, and calling for "Unity in this common battle!" Many Italian netizens responded by posting photos of themselves with Chinese.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP7euA4UEAAbgkf?format=jpg&name=small
The mayor of Florence, Italy,
@DarioNardella
initiated "hug a Chinese" on Twitter on Feb 1, opposing anger toward China amid the #nCoV2019 outbreak, and calling for "Unity in this common battle!" Many Italian netizens responded by posting photos of themselves with Chinese.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP7euA4UEAAbgkf?format=jpg&name=small
Lemonade sales shot up in all grocery stores as people buy and horde everything apparently. Completely shut off from all bars and restaurants though so it evened out somewhat.
Even if school comes back by September, I find it difficult to fathom fall sports being ready to go. Gyms and schools are closed so it will be left up to each individual student-athlete to prepare their bodies for sports again whenever they resume. If that is even possible. Sports are kind of irrelevant now obviously, but probably not so much for the young student-athletes. If football season starts on time I will be surprised. Then again, nobody including the scientists know how this will play out.
263 dead so far.... more folks were shot in Chicago. KIds are out driving around all night and/or going to each other's houses during the day. The good news is the growth is no where near early projections as far as I can tell.
Ben A.4-YrCoup
@daddyroo45
·
6h
Replying to
@Barnes_Law
Proves it's not Exponential but can still be linear growth (manageable) since "% Increase" can lessen as total cases rise. Ex) Day 1. 40 cases Day 2. Added +24 / 64 cases / 60% Increase Day 3. Added +24 / 88 cases / 37% Increase Day 4. Added +24 / 112 cases / 27% Increase
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETmq5K9VAAYafuC?format=png&name=small
Ben A.4-YrCoup
@daddyroo45
·
6h
Replying to
@Barnes_Law
Proves it's not Exponential but can still be linear growth (manageable) since "% Increase" can lessen as total cases rise. Ex) Day 1. 40 cases Day 2. Added +24 / 64 cases / 60% Increase Day 3. Added +24 / 88 cases / 37% Increase Day 4. Added +24 / 112 cases / 27% Increase
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETmq5K9VAAYafuC?format=png&name=small
Pretty good article that agrees with the part of protecting the vulnerable, and getting them the resources while allowing society to function at an almost normal level as well.
https://nyti.ms/2J1v53h
https://nyti.ms/2J1v53h
Thank you for this link. This is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along. But as pointed out on this forum, no leader is going to separate and isolate/confine a group of people based on race, age, sex or religion even if it means the downfall of the human race.
At the WH presser late yesterday they said that 275 thousand had been tested for the Kung flu and only 1 in 9 actually had it. So, everybody who is sick is clogging the system while the political hacks bitch about not have enough medical test kits.
My wife is a respiratory therapist at Berkeley hospital in martinsburg they gave 2 M95 masks and told her to make them last at least a week
The same presser where it was said taking malaria drugs, or two drugs that's actually cause heart failure will cure you?
Yeah... you can believe the government if you want to. I'll go with the experts in the private field on this one.
Maybe if he didnt turn down test from the WHO in order for POTUS's son in law to profit from making them later, I might say he was at least trying.
Meanwhile less than 0.1% of all Americans have been tested, and its playing politics to say that's a bad response. We are so ****ed as a country.
I dont get mad at good debate. And I dont necessarily disagree with you that we SHOULD have isolated the critical and highest risk much MUCH earlier than we did anything. As more articles come out, it looks like we waited far too long to do anything, let alone isolate the critical. This has been a growing health issue as early as the end of last year. However, now that we are at where we are, I do believe if we only isolated the critical all we would do is delay the critical still being impacted. That's just the opinion I concoct from what I'm reading over a wide variety of scholarly articles.
But the way I look at it, is the same as a few others have stated. Just because the death rate is lower to nil for younger people does not mean infection rate is any lower. In fact the younger population is now showing increasing signs of infection and even more hospitalizations in some cases. It's the same reason flu vaccines and inoculations are given to everyone. Because everyone can carry it. And as others have indicated, you cant just isolate a select demographic of people. Everyone is at risk. period. That's not opinion, it's cold hard fact. Babies, teens, adults, old people, any color, race, sex, creed etc is just as likely to contract this virus as anyone else. You stop the virus from spreading...you dont just try to stop the virus from killing. because the more it spreads, the more it mutates...and then none of us have any idea of what it becomes or who it kills next.
we waited far too long to do anything
Really? I mean really? China not letting the world get started on a vaccine... sure.... Italy... sure. But here? Can you imagine the feds trying to ramp up in January when the administration took major shit just from cutting off travel from China? Hell, even today we can't get massive funding through Congress without politics... Imagine trying to order millions of test kits in February, even if we had the right information.
the more it spreads, the more it mutates...and then none of us have any idea of what it becomes or who it kills next
How do we ever get vaccines then for viruses? I mean, each year vaccines are created in February for the following September. If they were constantly mutating (in this case you suggest maybe monthly), how in the world would we ever get a vaccine?
I don't have answers anymore than Johns Hopkins or the CDC does. Too much unknown. All any of us can do is speculate.
What I can do is make some speculations based on tons of research, which like picking the winner of a football game, can never be taken as verbatim. The spread of this virus will not be contained in the US. Way too late for that. Americans are too free to be bound by the same directives that Asian countries, who have slowed this virus to a crawl, are capable of. In my mind "herd immunization" is the only thing that can help the U.S. But we are doing the opposite of "herd immunization".
America screwed up in the beginning. Letting people travel freely from Wuhan, Europe and many other already infected regions is what brought CV to this country in every state, wide scale. That's water under the bridge now so playing Captain Hindsight won't help. Some people are still traveling within this country.
I will also predict that at some point, the closure of schools, businesses and confinement can only last so long before society collapses totally. If that happens, the nightmare that is public health will crumble with or without the coronavirus. The virus will at some point dissipate. The societal recovery won't. At some point leaders will have to make a decision on which is worse...the coronavirus or the overall health of society to function. If food and water starts to become scarce...the lack of hospital beds will become secondary. I don't see it coming to that however. But there is no way the US can stay in lockdown for 4-6 months without crumbling.
Read this and weep. I put this info together. Also, all viruses mutate...always have. Influenza strains constantly change.
WHERE AMERICA FAILED - The first initial spreads of the coronavirus (Washington, Illinois and California) came from people traveling from Wuhan, China. Despite the virus reeking havoc in that region, the leaders in the U.S. who knew what was coming did nothing to test or quarantine people traveling from Wuhan. Read these states and weep:
WASHINGTON - The first confirmed case of the global pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the United States was announced by the state of Washington on January 21, 2020. The first U.S. case was a 35-year-old man living in Snohomish County. He had returned from Wuhan, China, to the U.S., landing at Seattle–Tacoma International Airport on January 15.
ILLINOIS - On January 24, 2020, Illinois health officials announced the first confirmed case of the novel coronavirus in the state of Illinois, also the second confirmed case in the United States. The case was a woman in her 60s who had returned from Wuhan, China, the place of origin of the outbreak.
CALIFORNIA - On January 25, the CDC confirmed the first case in California, the third case in the U.S. In Orange County, a man in his 50s who was diagnosed with coronavirus after traveling to Wuhan, China. On January 31, the CDC confirmed the second state case, a man in Santa Clara County, who had recently traveled to Wuhan. On February 2, the CDC confirmed the third state case in a woman in Santa Clara County, California, who had recently traveled to Wuhan.
MARYLAND - On March 5, Governor Larry Hogan confirmed the first three cases of coronavirus in Montgomery County: one married couple in their 70s and an unrelated woman in her 50s. All three patients were on the same river cruise on the Nile River in Egypt.
VIRGINIA - On March 7, Virginia confirmed its first case, a US Marine assigned to Fort Belvoir. He had recently traveled abroad. On March 8, the state reported its second presumptive positive case, an 80-year-old man from Fairfax who had recently returned from a cruise on the Nile River. On March 9, the state reported another presumptive positive case: a man in his mid 60s from Arlington County who had recently travelled internationally.
PENNSYLVANIA - One of the first confirmed cases is an adult who recently had exposure to an infected person in another state. The other confirmed case, in Wayne County, is an adult who recently traveled extensively in Europe, including to countries where the new virus is widespread.
FLORIDA - Florida became the third state on March 1 to confirm its first coronavirus cases: one in Manatee County and one in Hillsborough County. The Hillsborough County patient is woman in her 20s who just returned from northern Italy, where there's a large outbreak. The Manatee County patient with COVID-19 is man in his 60s and is in hospital and stable. It's not known at this time how to this person was exposed.
NEW YORK - March 1 saw the first confirmed case of COVID-19 in New York, a 39-year-old woman health care worker who lived in Manhattan. She had returned from Iran on February 25. On March 3, a second case was confirmed, a lawyer in his 50s who lives in New Rochelle, Westchester County, immediately north of New York City, and works in Midtown Manhattan. He had traveled to Miami in February and regularly visited Israel. Two of his four children had recently returned from Israel.
MASSACHUSETTS - The first case of COVID-19 was confirmed by state health officials on February 1. The individual, a University of Massachusetts Boston student, had returned to Boston from Wuhan, China.
GEORGIA - On March 2, state officials announced the first two cases: a Fulton County man in his 50s who had recently returned from a work trip to Milan, and his 15-year-old son.
COLORADO - On March 5, public health officials reported the first two cases of coronavirus in the state. The first case was a man in his 30s visiting Summit County who had made contact with a confirmed case in California. The second case was an elderly woman in Douglas County who had traveled internationally on a cruise.
OHIO - The first three cases are people in their 50s from Cuyahoga County, a married couple who had taken a cruise on the Nile River, and a man who attended the annual conference in Washington, D.C., last week of the pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC. Two other people at the AIPAC previously were reported as having contracted the virus.
MICHIGAN - According to the state Chief Medical Executive and Chief Deputy for Health Dr. Joneigh S. Khaldun, the cases are in Oakland and Wayne counties. The Oakland County resident is an adult female and had a recent history of international travel. The Wayne County resident is an adult male had a history of domestic travel.
The same presser where it was said taking malaria drugs, or two drugs that's actually cause heart failure will cure you?
“On the drug therapy, Tuesday we’re going to start the hydroxychloroquine with these Zithromax, that’s the drug combination that the president has been talking about,” Cuomo said during a news conference in Albany."
https://nypost.com/2020/03/23/ny-will-turn-to-experimental-drugs-for-worst-coronavirus-cases-cuomo/
turn down test from the WHO in order for POTUS's son in law to profit from making them later, I might say he was at least trying.
That's a heavy accusation that I've done some reading on. Care to offer some proof?
Meanwhile less than 0.1% of all Americans have been tested
Never... ever... do all Americans get tested.
There is a reason why you have to get a new flu vaccine every year.
did nothing to test or quarantine people traveling from Wuhan. Read these states and weep:
What???? Only three countries the end of January took action against travel from China when Trump did: US, Israel and Australia. Basis your examples you are suggesting that Trump should have banned everyone from outside the country from coming back into the country... otherwise he was doing nothing.
Trump set travel restrictions before anybody had died outside China:
"President Donald Trump has taken tough steps to protect Americans from the spread of the coronavirus rampaging through China.
In an order issued Friday, federal officials announced that as of 5 p.m. Sunday, “Foreign nationals other than immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents who have traveled in China in the last 14 days will be denied entry into United States.”
American citizens returning the U.S. from areas in China where they may have been exposed to the virus will be quarantined, while others coming from the rest of China will be screened for the virus.
Earlier Friday, officials said Americans who evacuated from Wuhan earlier in the week would be quarantined for up to 14 days at March Air Reserve Base in California — the first mandatory quarantine order in the U.S. in 50 years, according to NPR.
As of Saturday, about 250 had died from the virus and about 12,000 infections had been confirmed, according to The New York Times. No deaths have been reported outside of China."
https://www.westernjournal.com/trump-bans-travel-china-orders-1st-quarantine-50-years/
Every year! Not every three months! And almost always a completely different strain. The 1918 flu was the exception. But it truly was a killer.
Gov. Hogan when asked if he was getting the help they need from the federal government:
"Well, no. Nobody's getting what they need... No state in America has enough masks or ventilators or any of the PPE that we're all desperately needing."
Donald Trump minutes ago:
"It looks like it's going to be over 50,000 (deaths). It's going to be bad. It's going to be very very bad."
Btw, he was just talking about NY there.
"Well, no. Nobody's getting what they need... No state in America has enough masks or ventilators or any of the PPE that we're all desperately needing."
Donald Trump minutes ago:
"It looks like it's going to be over 50,000 (deaths). It's going to be bad. It's going to be very very bad."
Btw, he was just talking about NY there.
"It looks like it's going to be over 50,000 (deaths)
Okay... repeated... Needs to be clarified. Deaths yes, but not NY.
And... let me add that no state politician is going to say they have enough of anything. Also, It is full of shit to suggest that we could manufacture all the ventilators - since February - that all the state politicians claim they need.... or masks, which goes without saying the masks are being hoarded. Remember, it wasn't until February we had reported deaths outside China.
But I do agree we are not getting what we need. Congress is playing politics.
And... New York... yes... very... very bad. Half the deaths are in NY and as far as I know they still have the damn subway running. What the hell is up with that?
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Most all, if not 100%, of all schools K-12, college grad and post-grad, will be closed for the remainder of the spring. And likely through the summer.
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