Much Ado about nothing

[TDHelmick]

"Every linebacker, corner and safety was made up of multiple sophomores and juniors. They'll all be back, better equipped to deal with spread offenses that every opponent but two ran."

Won't make much difference if the coaches have them in the wrong pass coverage defensing it all wrong...

Agree. Although when you get a pass rush with a decent secondary, tight man coverage can work (see 2018). We always ran tight man at Florida State when I was there. But the pressure coming off the edge was really good.

I mean, if I am Ohio State with Chase Young...yea, I'm in tight man. The safety is only there to tackle the ball carrier who breaks through the second level.

I don't think any of us realize how good Brehm and Plummer were on the DL last year. They could plug the middle, the off-tackle, the sweep and pressure the QB all in the same.

 

[novaunicorn]

"Every linebacker, corner and safety was made up of multiple sophomores and juniors. They'll all be back, better equipped to deal with spread offenses that every opponent but two ran."

Won't make much difference if the coaches have them in the wrong pass coverage defensing it all wrong...

Amen!!!!

 

[theprocessworks]

Of the 5 championship teams this decade the 2018 team had the largest playoff margin of victory of any title team. That margin was 42 points with the 2013 team a 40.5. Also the 2018 team was the only title team to win a title with Dunbar in the same classification. Yes that squad had a slow start, but when they got moving (helmet gate), no one came close! All 5 teams were special. Any of the 5 are arguably the best of the 5. Imo

 

[BoyznBlue]

To some degree, I get what you're saying, but you can't always use the 'but Dunbar wasnt there' argument. The fact is, Dunbar was not a 1A team then, and while yes they are going to be a formidable opponent anytime they play in 1A...they were no more relevant to 1A in those years than Wise or Linganore or any other non-1A team during that time. You also have to consider that Dunbar did not win any 2A titles during that time either, so the argument swings both ways. One could surmise that Dunbar's success is dependent on being in a smaller class as well. Seeing as how they haven't won a 2A title since several years BEFORE FH last did. In fact, the last time both schools were in the 2A finals, Fort Hill got the last win. It's all numbers and stats, and they can be manipulated to prove points, I get that as well. Dunbar's last non-1A title was 24 years ago in 3A - a year after that phenomenal '94 2A squad.

Would FH have still won titles if Dunbar was in 1A in 2013-2014? Who knows. Maybe/maybe not. There's no doubt that Dunbar and FH both have had much more success in 1A than any other class. But saying a team isn't special because they didn't play against a team in another class is a hard sell.

I agree with most of this. Like you said, Dunbar definitely capitalized from playing at 1A. I never said Dunbar is an amazing squad. Even in the TA years, do you remember any other players from that team? It's been proven over the years that a team with one great player can be neutralized.

My comments were actually in reference to the ridiculous comment Comet said about the FH team, "Would have easily beaten Dunbar in 13-14". In 2012 FH lost to Brunswick in the playoffs, and then Dunbar beat Brunswick 40-8 in the next round. But one year later in 2013 FH would have "easily beaten Dunbar"? If you've never ever beaten a team, it's really a reach to surmise you can "easily" beat them one year later. If Dunbar stays in 1A I don't think even the most die-hard FH fan (or red jacket as Lag would say, lol) would say they win 4 titles in a row. But we will never know. Especially because those years FH played such a soft schedule. I understand it's not FH's fault that Dunbar was reclassed. But imagine the great game if a Ty Johnson team had played at least one game against Martinsburg. And that will be part of Appel's legacy at the end of the day.

The word "special" is of course a subjective term so I can't debate that. Some people may think every championship team is "special". The Silver Hoop champs could be "special".

 

[ConeyIsland]

On top of what I just explained. After the 2012 season and the Brunswick aerial assault loss, Coach Appel dedicated himself to understanding new pass defense concepts and more 7 on 7 exposure. I'm sure this coaching staff will do the same.Sometimes it takes losing a game, yet alone getting spanked 41-0, to learn.

For anyone that cares about my non-coaching experience opinion...the Fort Hill 6-2 defense that has to morph into a 4-4 defense against the spread where the defensive tackles are in charge of contain, is a bad scheme. When Catoctin ran the perimeter with that quick back, there was not a defender around him until he got 12 yards. They could have run that play every snap and demolished FH. Williamsport did the same with their quick back and hit long TD runs. The defensive ends are in pass coverage. The 2 linebackers are crowded in the middle. The only thing on the outside are your big tackles.

EVERYBODY is running a version of the spread offense where they send out 2,3, 4 and 5 receivers to open up the running game. OK, Alco, Southern and FH don't run spread. Even Mountain Ridge uses spread half the time out of their veer formation. FH has to adapt. Build a spread defense, even if that means shifting to a 3 linebacker set or making the tackles be outside backers with their knuckles down. If you face a power run team then have a different package. So YES, Fort Hill needs two defensive scheme packages. One for the spread, and one for the power. Not a power set that gets morphed for the spread where the ends drop.

The spread changed everything, including the weight room where maxes are now measured by how many reps and not how much weight. Big, strong and fat are not where linemen are today. You need quickness and washboard stomachs.

This is it right here, people. If you don't agree with or at least understand what Todd is saying, then you don't get it.

I'll join up here with everyone by repeating the obvious for the 40th time: it's very unlikely you'll defend a well-run spread offense with 2 corners and 1 safety. Now if you're FH and playing a garbage, poorly coached team that's trying to run a spread, it's a different story. But you can only expect so much when you're leveraging a run defense scheme by hoping your LB's or DE's will effectively cover anything beyond a screen pass.

 

[BoyznBlue]

Not incredible teams by what standard...the 4A measuring standard? Again, debasing 1A because they are 1A is silly. Those FH teams were exceptionally incredible teams for 1A just the same as Urbana was during their 4 year record tying stint for the class they were in.

Under your analogy I would say Wise is a product of poor competition. When was the last time they beat a team who was as good or better than them? They have not. See how that works? We all have said the same about Martinsburg. I would say the same about the Damascus run. When teams do this on a repeated record breaking consistency, it means they are just damn good. Just because they might not be able to beat a really good team in a higher classification makes no sense and I have never been able to figure out why you continually push such an agenda. Unless you have an agenda.

Using your own words...
Fort Hill will continue to be a top 1A for the forseeable future.
Wise will continue to be a top 4A for the forseeable future.
Damascus will continue to be a top 2A/3A team for the forseeable future.
Martinsburg will continue to be a top WV AAA team for the forseeable future.
They are all just a better program than everyone else in their class for a reason. It's not because all the other teams in their classification suck every year.

The flaw in your analysis is Wise in 4A, and D-Mass in 2A/3A, have to face top competition eventually in the playoffs. Wise eventually has to face the Moco champ. D-Mass eventually has to face Walkersville, Oakdale, Franklin etc. - 1A is only classification where you can win a title without facing another solid team. Once again this is a fact. You can get upset with me for stating a fact, but it's still a fact. I'm not trying to "debase" 1A schools, any more than to say the NFL East teams are not playing as well as the rest of the NFC this year. That's a fact.

I happen to agree that 4A schools and 1A schools should not be measured against each other. I have made this point "continually". If I say FH has no business being ranked higher than Sherwood, Flowers, Bowie and Paint Branch, you will say I'm hating, right? I'm not making the comparison somebody else is. If you insert even the best 1A schools like FH and Dunbar into 4A South/4A West they are going to lose at least 2 or 3 games a year just during the regular season. You're not going to run the ball every down and beat those teams. They should not be compared because it's not fair.

 

[FHHSAHS]

I agree with most of this. Like you said, Dunbar definitely capitalized from playing at 1A. I never said Dunbar is an amazing squad. Even in the TA years, do you remember any other players from that team? It's been proven over the years that a team with one great player can be neutralized.

His senior year, you're right...no I dont. Aside from the QB, Perry. His sophomore and junior years, I do. Portee, Farr, Perry - they had a string of fantastic teams from 06-08. Very similar to what we saw at FH from 13-16.

My comments were actually in reference to the ridiculous comment Comet said about the FH team, "Would have easily beaten Dunbar in 13-14". In 2012 FH lost to Brunswick in the playoffs, and then Dunbar beat Brunswick 40-8 in the next round. But one year later in 2013 FH would have "easily beaten Dunbar"? If you've never ever beaten a team, it's really a reach to surmise you can "easily" beat them one year later. If Dunbar stays in 1A I don't think even the most die-hard FH fan (or red jacket as Lag would say, lol) would say they win 4 titles in a row. But we will never know. Especially because those years FH played such a soft schedule. I understand it's not FH's fault that Dunbar was reclassed. But imagine the great game if a Ty Johnson team had played at least one game against Martinsburg. And that will be part of Appel's legacy at the end of the day.
.

I don't know how far we're allowed to go back, but since you mentioned TA, I'll at least stay within the last 10 years. But as recently as 10 years ago, Appel DID beat Martinsburg. No, not with Ty Johnson - but still, I'm not sure why it's relevant to even bring Martinsburg into the debate of 1A teams. But I also have to comment on the idea that losing one year can't translate into being a heavy hitter the next year (in re: your Brunswick example) - I mean, staying on the Martinsburg topic...in 09 FH clobbers the bejeezus out of the Dogs. Then the next year, its almost a complete 180 with MHS clobbering FH right back. Or, just as we saw this past weekend...Catoctin made a 90 point swing in one year against FH. 55-6 loss followed by a 41-0 win. So it's not a ridiculous statement at all, by precedence.

Regardless, whether Appel is gone or not after this season or whenever he decides to be gone - his legacy will be that he was one of the most successful coaches in FH history. At least in the modern playoff era. It's not a discussion of but did he play Martinsburg...or but did he beat Dunbar...or but he played in 1A not 2A....he was given a task to lead his team to titles in the class his team was in. And he accomplished that. More consistently than any other coach in the last 45 years. I dont think his legacy will be marred by not playing Martinsburg every year or losing 41-0 in the most lopsided loss in scshool history. Those things happen. Legacies are not based on 1 game.

Anyhoo, I think we mostly agree though, that aside from all the talk and debates there's a couple things for sure. FH and Dunbar both have 1 2A and and 1 3A title. But have made their living off of being small schools playing like big schools in 1A. And head-to-head, Dunbar owns FH.

 

[TDHelmick]

The flaw in your analysis is Wise in 4A, and D-Mass in 2A/3A, have to face top competition eventually in the playoffs. Wise eventually has to face the Moco champ. D-Mass eventually has to face Walkersville, Oakdale, Franklin etc. - 1A is only classification where you can win a title without facing another solid team. Once again this is a fact. You can get upset with me for stating a fact, but it's still a fact. I'm not trying to "debase" 1A schools, any more than to say the NFL East teams are not playing as well as the rest of the NFC this year. That's a fact.

I happen to agree that 4A schools and 1A schools should not be measured against each other. I have made this point "continually". If I say FH has no business being ranked higher than Sherwood, Flowers, Bowie and Paint Branch, you will say I'm hating, right? I'm not making the comparison somebody else is. If you insert even the best 1A schools like FH and Dunbar into 4A South/4A West they are going to lose at least 2 or 3 games a year just during the regular season. You're not going to run the ball every down and beat those teams. They should not be compared because it's not fair.

That post made no sense. You say 4A and 1A schools should not be measured against each other. But then go on to do just that. Why would anyone even mention what happens if you insert FH and Dunbar in to 4A South????? In another response on this thread you then question the 4 title run by FH by asking what happened if they played Martinsburg????

I'm just turning around your logic back at you...Wise has not beaten a team that is as good or better then them - regular season or post season. That is a fact, look up the rankings. That is why they have only lost 2 games in 5 years. And there are plenty of schools in PG, DC and NOVA that are as good or better than Wise, but they won't play them.

You're not going to tell anyone with the ability to reason that the Damascus run and the Wise run were just great teams...but the record breaking 4 title run by FH was just because everyone else in their class was no good. Sorry, but that is far from being a fact. Reread that last sentence in bold and understand why people realize you are biased when it comes to FH. C'mon man. Wise, Damascus and FH are just great programs and are better than everyone else in their class for a reason. None of them have to prove they are great by playing teams that are bigger and ranked higher.....AND NONE OF THEM DO!

Now for the million dollar question....WHY DOESN'T MARTINSBURG AND WISE PLAY EACH OTHER?

 

[BoyznBlue]

That post made no sense. You say 4A and 1A schools should not be measured against each other. But then go on to do just that. Why would anyone even mention what happens if you insert FH and Dunbar in to 4A South????? In another response on this thread you then question the 4 title run by FH by asking what happened if they played Martinsburg????

I'm just turning around your logic back at you...Wise has not beaten a team that is as good or better then them - regular season or post season. That is a fact, look up the rankings. That is why they have only lost 2 games in 5 years. And there are plenty of schools in PG, DC and NOVA that are as good or better than Wise, but they won't play them.

You're not going to tell anyone with the ability to reason that the Damascus run and the Wise run were just great teams...but the record breaking 4 title run by FH was just because everyone else in their class was no good. Sorry, but that is far from being a fact. Reread that last sentence in bold and understand why people realize you are biased when it comes to FH. C'mon man. Wise, Damascus and FH are just great programs and are better than everyone else in their class for a reason. None of them have to prove they are great by playing teams that are bigger and ranked higher.....AND NONE OF THEM DO!

Now for the million dollar question....WHY DOESN'T MARTINSBURG AND WISE PLAY EACH OTHER?

You are confused because you took two different responses and are combining them into one. There was a reason I replied separately. I was just saying it would have been a very memorable game if FH had played Martinsburg when Ty was a senior. I'm not saying FH should play Martinsburg every year. The last 10 games in the series FH was 1-9.

About your other point, let's just deal with facts. And let's use the Maryland Media Poll that you love to reference. 2018: #14 Wise gets knocked out by #8 QO the eventual state champ. #18 Damascus gets knocked out by #3 Oakdale the eventual state champ. 2017: #2 Wise wins the state championship by defeating #9 QO. #2 Damascus wins the state championship by defeating #4 Walkersville. 2016: #2 Wise wins the state championship by defeating #8 QO. #3 Damascus wins the state championship by defeating #10 Franklin. In those same years Fort Hill finished #17, #16 and #8 and didn't have to play another 1A school that was even close to being ranked. During the "record breaking" 4 title run FH did not play another 1A school that was even close to being ranked. Last year FH won the title by beating a 5 loss team in the championship. Once again, you can say I'm biased, you can call me a hater, but these numbers don't lie. I have previously noted FH has not played another school on this poll in over 13 years.

Wise and Damascus have to play schools with equal and often better talent every single year. FH simply does not. Even comparing FH to Wise and Damascus is nonsensical. How can FH be described as a "great program" if they don't beat, or even play other great (or good) teams. FH has a good program. Appel is a good coach. The kids buy into the program and work hard and deserve the 1A titles they have won. I have always said that. As I said earlier in this thread, superlatives are very subjective. What I think is "great" or "special" may not be what you think is "great" or "special". There's no right or wrong with individual opinion. But to say Wise and Damascus don't have to prove themselves every single year is just factually incorrect, and actually I think you know better than to say that.

 

[TDHelmick]

You are confused because you took two different responses and are combining them into one. There was a reason I replied separately. I was just saying it would have been a very memorable game if FH had played Martinsburg when Ty was a senior. I'm not saying FH should play Martinsburg every year. The last 10 games in the series FH was 1-9.

About your other point, let's just deal with facts. And let's use the Maryland Media Poll that you love to reference. 2018: #14 Wise gets knocked out by #8 QO the eventual state champ. #18 Damascus gets knocked out by #3 Oakdale the eventual state champ. 2017: #2 Wise wins the state championship by defeating #9 QO. #2 Damascus wins the state championship by defeating #4 Walkersville. 2016: #2 Wise wins the state championship by defeating #8 QO. #3 Damascus wins the state championship by defeating #10 Franklin. In those same years Fort Hill finished #17, #16 and #8 and didn't have to play another 1A school that was even close to being ranked. During the "record breaking" 4 title run FH did not play another 1A school that was even close to being ranked. Last year FH won the title by beating a 5 loss team in the championship. Once again, you can say I'm biased, you can call me a hater, but these numbers don't lie. I have previously noted FH has not played another school on this poll in over 13 years.

Wise and Damascus have to play schools with equal and often better talent every single year.
VERY INCORRECT - NO THEY DON'T.

FH simply does not. Even comparing FH to Wise and Damascus is nonsensical. How can FH be described as a "great program" if they don't beat, or even play other great (or good) teams. FH has a good program. Appel is a good coach. The kids buy into the program and work hard and deserve the 1A titles they have won. I have always said that. As I said earlier in this thread, superlatives are very subjective. What I think is "great" or "special" may not be what you think is "great" or "special". There's no right or wrong with individual opinion. But to say Wise and Damascus don't have to prove themselves every single year is just factually incorrect, and actually I think you know better than to say that.

NEWSFLASH: Higher class schools SHOULD BE playing higher class and higher ranked competition!

NEWSFLASH for the 100th time -- Dunbar and FH are Class 1A. OMG!

When both of them wins the state title 14 out of 15 years - that is their measuring stick. It means they are way better than all those 1A teams because they are great programs with not just great coaches...but legendary great coaches. That's why they both have been State Coach Of The Year. It's the same exact reason North Dakota State and Mount Union are historical legends in the NCAA.

Fort Hill and Urbana are the only teams in Maryland history to win 4 straight titles. That is amazing and I don't care what class they were in.

And you just proved my point. Using your own info from above...
Wise did not beat one single team who was ranked higher
Damascus did not beat one single team who was ranked higher
The time they did they both lost.
LOL.

What's even more funny is that you continually pull out the Maryland State Poll to try and prove FH isn't worthy of being great because they don't play teams ranked in this poll. But when FH lands in the poll you go on to dismiss how foolish the poll is. Do you even realize you do this? Everyone here can confirm this dozens of times.

 

[cognizantbutconcussed]

If we only had UA as a major contributor to our program. Imagine the new heights

 

[BoyznBlue]

NEWSFLASH: Higher class schools SHOULD BE playing higher class and higher ranked competition!

NEWSFLASH for the 100th time -- Dunbar and FH are Class 1A. OMG!

When both of them wins the state title 14 out of 15 years - that is their measuring stick. It means they are way better than all those 1A teams because they are great programs with not just great coaches...but legendary great coaches. That's why they both have been State Coach Of The Year. It's the same exact reason North Dakota State and Mount Union are historical legends in the NCAA.

Fort Hill and Urbana are the only teams in Maryland history to win 4 straight titles. That is amazing and I don't care what class they were in.

And you just proved my point. Using your own info from above...
Wise did not beat one single team who was ranked higher
Damascus did not beat one single team who was ranked higher
The time they did they both lost.
LOL.

What's even more funny is that you continually pull out the Maryland State Poll to try and prove FH isn't worthy of being great because they don't play teams ranked in this poll. But when FH lands in the poll you go on to dismiss how foolish the poll is. Do you even realize you do this? Everyone here can confirm this dozens of times.

Your logic is hypocritical then. If better schools should be playing better competition? Then how do you justify the FH schedule that you put together every year? You also have a habit of saying crazy stuff on this board. Remember you said last year's FH senior class had "boatloads" of college offers? Now you're saying Wise and Damascus don't play good competition?

And then I also assume you are admitting that FH should not be ranked in the Maryland Top 25? You can't have it both ways. You say we can't play them because we're only 1A, but you are good enough to be ranked higher than those other schools?

Like I said, I can't debate your opinion of "great". Evidently everyone is great. North Dakota State is great, the NFC East leading Dallas Cowboys are great, If you beat Silver Oak every year you're great, the Frostburg Rec league champs are great, lol

 

[TDHelmick]

Your logic is hypocritical then. If better schools should be playing better competition? Then how do you justify the FH schedule that you put together every year? You also have a habit of saying crazy stuff on this board. Remember you said last year's FH senior class had "boatloads" of college offers? Now you're saying Wise and Damascus don't play good competition?

And then I also assume you are admitting that FH should not be ranked in the Maryland Top 25? You can't have it both ways. You say we can't play them because we're only 1A, but you are good enough to be ranked higher than those other schools?

Like I said, I can't debate your opinion of "great". Evidently everyone is great. North Dakota State is great, the NFC East leading Dallas Cowboys are great, If you beat Silver Oak every year you're great, the Frostburg Rec league champs are great, lol

Wow, it's mind boggling you cannot understand 1A is not comparable to 3A/4A. But if stacking FH and Dunbar up with Damascus and Wise makes you feel better, have at it.

What's important is that your judgement is irrelevant other than a message board. That is why Todd Appel and Lawrence Smith have been selected Maryland Coach of The Year - all classes combined. Those voter's opinions matter a great deal more. And factually...Allegany, Dunbar and FH are legends in football across the state and most every coach and every admin knows it and openly admits it. The measurement of their greatness is based on what class they are in, not what higher classification teams are better.

Fort Hill won a state record 4 titles in a row.
Dunbar won 7 state titles in 9 years.
Alco won 3 titles in 4 years.
I don't care what classes they were in -- amazing stuff.

For a decade you have been on here trying to devalue FH with the same repetitive copy and pastes that make absolutely no sense. Maryland Top 25 poll, 1A is not good, don't play Wise or Martinsburg teams. They are a 1A school dude. I have no idea how you cannot grasp this concept but your overwhelming time and energy spent trying to knock down their accomplishments is well documented on this and other forums. Yes, there are too many red clad jacket folks here that go Rah! Rah! Fort Hill. You are the longtime ying to their yang. Congrats.

 

[BrianH1974]

Come on Todd, no 1A team could ever be great. They can't play with Wise, Quince Orchard, Martinsburg and Damascus teams. The only legit title around here could only be 1975. hahahahaha.

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

And then I also assume you are admitting that FH should not be ranked in the Maryland Top 25? You can't have it both ways. You say we can't play them because we're only 1A, but you are good enough to be ranked higher than those other schools?

9 out of 10 Years there is Not 25 Teams Better Than FH or Dunbar in the State.
I will say this was the worst FH Team I've seen in about `10 years and there is not 25 Teams in the state that could beat them

 

[cognizantbutconcussed]

Your logic is hypocritical then. If better schools should be playing better competition? Then how do you justify the FH schedule that you put together every year? You also have a habit of saying crazy stuff on this board. Remember you said last year's FH senior class had "boatloads" of college offers? Now you're saying Wise and Damascus don't play good competition?

And then I also assume you are admitting that FH should not be ranked in the Maryland Top 25? You can't have it both ways. You say we can't play them because we're only 1A, but you are good enough to be ranked higher than those other schools?

Like I said, I can't debate your opinion of "great". Evidently everyone is great. North Dakota State is great, the NFC East leading Dallas Cowboys are great, If you beat Silver Oak every year you're great, the Frostburg Rec league champs are great, lol

Frostburg rec league, silver hoop, national marbles tournament winners, church league basketball, FSU intramural sports, left-armed underwater brain surgeons, all off limits in this forum sir. All off limits

 

[Lagmeister]

9 out of 10 Years there is Not 25 Teams Better Than FH or Dunbar in the State.
I will say this was the worst FH Team I've seen in about `10 years and there is not 25 Teams in the state that could beat them

This year is stupefying to me. To watch FH dismantle the competition and then run into what appears to me to be just a good 1A team and get dismantled... well, is to me not explained away in historic context. If FH had maybe 3 losses and beat most other teams by a score or so... Okay. I get it.

So.... how did FH manage to play so many 'super bad' teams (as it was explained). Hell, pro teams can have a game where they lose it. It seems more logical to me that FH had a very.... once in generation... 'el foldo' rather than this FH team being so bad and happened to play 'super bad' teams.

 

[cognizantbutconcussed]

This year is stupefying to me. To watch FH dismantle the competition and then run into what appears to me to be just a good 1A team and get dismantled... well, is to me not explained away in historic context. If FH had maybe 3 losses and beat most other teams by a score or so... Okay. I get it.

So.... how did FH manage to play so many 'super bad' teams (as it was explained). Hell, pro teams can have a game where they lose it. It seems more logical to me that FH had a very.... once in generation... 'el foldo' rather than this FH team being so bad and happened to play 'super bad' teams.

Although the origin of the phrase is a point of contention in certain circles, there's really only 1 conclusion---shit happens!

 

[WeHave8]

This year is stupefying to me. To watch FH dismantle the competition and then run into what appears to me to be just a good 1A team and get dismantled... well, is to me not explained away in historic context. If FH had maybe 3 losses and beat most other teams by a score or so... Okay. I get it.

So.... how did FH manage to play so many 'super bad' teams (as it was explained). Hell, pro teams can have a game where they lose it. It seems more logical to me that FH had a very.... once in generation... 'el foldo' rather than this FH team being so bad and happened to play 'super bad' teams.

A schedule consisting of golden brown sponge cake filled with delectable creamy filling.

 

[RedPride97]

A schedule consisting of golden brown sponge cake filled with delectable creamy filling.

Just remember you were part of that cake

 

[RedPride97]

This year is stupefying to me. To watch FH dismantle the competition and then run into what appears to me to be just a good 1A team and get dismantled... well, is to me not explained away in historic context. If FH had maybe 3 losses and beat most other teams by a score or so... Okay. I get it.

So.... how did FH manage to play so many 'super bad' teams (as it was explained). Hell, pro teams can have a game where they lose it. It seems more logical to me that FH had a very.... once in generation... 'el foldo' rather than this FH team being so bad and happened to play 'super bad' teams.

Just more proof boyz should stick to righting about dead musicians

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

This year is stupefying to me. To watch FH dismantle the competition and then run into what appears to me to be just a good 1A team and get dismantled... well, is to me not explained away in historic context. If FH had maybe 3 losses and beat most other teams by a score or so... Okay. I get it.

So.... how did FH manage to play so many 'super bad' teams (as it was explained). Hell, pro teams can have a game where they lose it. It seems more logical to me that FH had a very.... once in generation... 'el foldo' rather than this FH team being so bad and happened to play 'super bad' teams.

from the little I watched this season, I think football was really down in our area. I think FH, Keyser and Frankfort were all down but all had very good records. I didn't see Northern but they finished with a very good record as well and they lost to Williamsport. I'm not sure what it is but yes some of the teams on the schedule were really bad and you're that one big loss doesn't make them bad, going into the Catoctin I thought they would win the title but still thought this was about the worst FH team in 10 years.

 

[Lagmeister]

In the spirit of the holiday season and a string quality.... non nasty posts.... I offer an equal number of 'likes' - good reads.

 

[BoyznBlue]

Wow, it's mind boggling you cannot understand 1A is not comparable to 3A/4A. But if stacking FH and Dunbar up with Damascus and Wise makes you feel better, have at it.

What's important is that your judgement is irrelevant other than a message board. That is why Todd Appel and Lawrence Smith have been selected Maryland Coach of The Year - all classes combined. Those voter's opinions matter a great deal more. And factually...Allegany, Dunbar and FH are legends in football across the state and most every coach and every admin knows it and openly admits it. The measurement of their greatness is based on what class they are in, not what higher classification teams are better.

Fort Hill won a state record 4 titles in a row.
Dunbar won 7 state titles in 9 years.
Alco won 3 titles in 4 years.
I don't care what classes they were in -- amazing stuff.

For a decade you have been on here trying to devalue FH with the same repetitive copy and pastes that make absolutely no sense. Maryland Top 25 poll, 1A is not good, don't play Wise or Martinsburg teams. They are a 1A school dude. I have no idea how you cannot grasp this concept but your overwhelming time and energy spent trying to knock down their accomplishments is well documented on this and other forums. Yes, there are too many red clad jacket folks here that go Rah! Rah! Fort Hill. You are the longtime ying to their yang. Congrats.

It's mind boggling to you because you simply don't read or comprehend. When you even mention Wise and Damascus in the same sentence with FH you are already making a comparison. I already gave you the stats, which you ignored because Wise and Damascus were 5 spots higher than the teams they beat. They play Top 10 opponents every year in the playoffs. FH ran off 4 in a row versus Havre De Grace type of competition. FH #8 versus HDG #70. Congrats you're legendary. We beat Silver Oak with 12 kids on the roster, we're great!! And to be clear, I never said FH should play Wise. I have said numerous times that if you use the excuse that FH can't play 4A schools (your words) it's hypocritical to turn around and play 4A Walter Johnson. I have made that very clear, you're just twisting my words for the sake of your anemic argument. It's not legendary to drop Martinsburg and weasel out of the agreement with 1A Friendship. And I'll still be surprised if the Erie game next year is played. And now that the Walter Johnson program has bounced back, let's see how anxious you guys are to play them now.

And here you go with more crazy talk. I already mentioned your nonsense about the "boatloads" of college offers. I have never heard any coach or admin describe Allegany or FH as legends. You must be drinking some of that fermented Lemonade, lol. I understand you are proud of your schools but there are very few high school programs in Maryland that are considered legendary. DeMatha basketball under Morgan Wooten, and the Dunbar (Balt) basketball program under Sugar Cain (look him up because you probably don't know about him) and Bob Wade, are legendary because they rose to national prominence. You can ask people anywhere in the state and they will know about those two programs. Once you get east of Frederick people don't know about Alco or FH. If I mention Cumberland most people downstate are think I'm talking about Columbia in Howard Co. In the Balt/DC area coaches are focused on their own rivals, which usually aren't in 1A. Admins in Moco/PG/SoMd couldn't find FH on a map. Dunbar (Balt) football isn't legendary either. When is the last time they beat another team of any significance? I can't even put DeMatha football in the legendary column. Whatever team wins the NFC East this season will be champions, are they legendary?

 

[BoyznBlue]

I also want to point out that for some reason, if you read from the top of the thread, Helmick brought 4A schools, Wise and Martinsburg into this conversation. Then he will wonder why we're always getting off topic talking about Martinsburg.

 

[BoyznBlue]

Just more proof boyz should stick to righting about dead musicians

Another person who is functionally illiterate. What dead musician are you referring to?

 

[Argox66]

Another person who is functionally illiterate. What dead musician are you referring to?

You mean,

“To which dead musician are you referring?”

Never end a sentence with a preposition. Just saying.

 

[novaunicorn]

This year is stupefying to me. To watch FH dismantle the competition and then run into what appears to me to be just a good 1A team and get dismantled... well, is to me not explained away in historic context. If FH had maybe 3 losses and beat most other teams by a score or so... Okay. I get it.

So.... how did FH manage to play so many 'super bad' teams (as it was explained). Hell, pro teams can have a game where they lose it. It seems more logical to me that FH had a very.... once in generation... 'el foldo' rather than this FH team being so bad and happened to play 'super bad' teams.

Lag I hate to say it but a lot of fh fans are just Appelites who can't accept that our team was just not very good. If the Morgantowns/Hollidaysburgs were anywhere near normal I really don't think we would have beat them. It seems like it was more luck than anything that those teams, and Allegany were having down years and fh looked just fine beating them, but they didn't dominate like in a normal year when a fh team is truly good.
I think as many have stated it also shows how important coordinators can be to a program. I get that it's the first year after losing two very key pieces but again, it's an excuse. Belichick and Saban lose coordinators all the time and sorry people but they are at a much higher level than fh. It seems like a really great coach would be able to step in and assist in a first year transition.

 

[BoyznBlue]

You mean,

“To which dead musician are you referring?”

Never end a sentence with a preposition. Just saying.

Duly noted

 

[Lagmeister]

You mean,

“To which dead musician are you referring?”

Never end a sentence with a preposition. Just saying.

“That is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.” - Churchill.

 

[Lagmeister]

It's mind boggling to you because you simply don't read or comprehend. When you even mention Wise and Damascus in the same sentence with FH you are already making a comparison. I already gave you the stats, which you ignored because Wise and Damascus were 5 spots higher than the teams they beat. They play Top 10 opponents every year in the playoffs. FH ran off 4 in a row versus Havre De Grace type of competition. FH #8 versus HDG #70. Congrats you're legendary. We beat Silver Oak with 12 kids on the roster, we're great!! And to be clear, I never said FH should play Wise. I have said numerous times that if you use the excuse that FH can't play 4A schools (your words) it's hypocritical to turn around and play 4A Walter Johnson. I have made that very clear, you're just twisting my words for the sake of your anemic argument. It's not legendary to drop Martinsburg and weasel out of the agreement with 1A Friendship. And I'll still be surprised if the Erie game next year is played. And now that the Walter Johnson program has bounced back, let's see how anxious you guys are to play them now.

And here you go with more crazy talk. I already mentioned your nonsense about the "boatloads" of college offers. I have never heard any coach or admin describe Allegany or FH as legends. You must be drinking some of that fermented Lemonade, lol. I understand you are proud of your schools but there are very few high school programs in Maryland that are considered legendary. DeMatha basketball under Morgan Wooten, and the Dunbar (Balt) basketball program under Sugar Cain (look him up because you probably don't know about him) and Bob Wade, are legendary because they rose to national prominence. You can ask people anywhere in the state and they will know about those two programs. Once you get east of Frederick people don't know about Alco or FH. If I mention Cumberland most people downstate are think I'm talking about Columbia in Howard Co. In the Balt/DC area coaches are focused on their own rivals, which usually aren't in 1A. Admins in Moco/PG/SoMd couldn't find FH on a map. Dunbar (Balt) football isn't legendary either. When is the last time they beat another team of any significance? I can't even put DeMatha football in the legendary column. Whatever team wins the NFC East this season will be champions, are they legendary?

You do know how to give a good response.

 

[ConeyIsland]

Lag I hate to say it but a lot of fh fans are just Appelites who can't accept that our team was just not very good. If the Morgantowns/Hollidaysburgs were anywhere near normal I really don't think we would have beat them. It seems like it was more luck than anything that those teams, and Allegany were having down years and fh looked just fine beating them, but they didn't dominate like in a normal year when a fh team is truly good.
I think as many have stated it also shows how important coordinators can be to a program. I get that it's the first year after losing two very key pieces but again, it's an excuse. Belichick and Saban lose coordinators all the time and sorry people but they are at a much higher level than fh. It seems like a really great coach would be able to step in and assist in a first year transition.

Some good humility in that post, which isn't easy when your squad has been as good as FH has been for the past decade or so and gets a loss like Catoctin gave you. Believe me, as an Alco guy, it still amazes me. A couple of us were kicking it around this past weekend, trying to figure out how our program has fallen to where it's at now, what's different from how it was when we played and how it can get back to a more competitive level.

Even our FH buddies who were there with us agreed that hey, FH just ran out of gas this season. I agree with them, plus like everyone has stated here already, y'all lost 2 key coaches and a boat load of starters from last year. That's hard to come back from at any level, but especially 1A where our programs have the fewest amount of resources in terms of bodies, coaches with external influences and experience, exposure to a lot of other outside variables, etc.

I said it earlier this week though, you guys went 11-2 and made it to the final four in the state. The fact that there's a lot of discussion and complaining about it means that the program is very strong and the expectations are high, which is exactly what you want.

So overall, a good season for the kids and the coaches. If a lot of players return and coaching changes are minimal, then FH is setting up for another good one next year.

Good point about Belichick and Saban always losing key assistants... both at the top of their games as head coaches, but even they're both having down years this season. It's cyclical, every good run has dips and every good run comes to an end.

 

[RedPride97]

Another person who is functionally illiterate. What dead musician are you referring to?

Did you

Another person who is functionally illiterate. What dead musician are you referring to?

Did you or did you not say you wrote the story of allice Darr in allegany magazine

 

[RedPride97]

Lag I hate to say it but a lot of fh fans are just Appelites who can't accept that our team was just not very good. If the Morgantowns/Hollidaysburgs were anywhere near normal I really don't think we would have beat them. It seems like it was more luck than anything that those teams, and Allegany were having down years and fh looked just fine beating them, but they didn't dominate like in a normal year when a fh team is truly good.
I think as many have stated it also shows how important coordinators can be to a program. I get that it's the first year after losing two very key pieces but again, it's an excuse. Belichick and Saban lose coordinators all the time and sorry people but they are at a much higher level than fh. It seems like a really great coach would be able to step in and assist in a first year transition.

I agree i said before the season started they might loose those two games ofcourse not knowing they were both as bad as they were. Coach Mckenney retiring was a big blow to the defense. What bothered me the most was the breaking up of the O line 4 should have been wearing 53 and playing gaurd he was not vary affective at tight end or the wing.

 

[TDHelmick]

It's mind boggling to you because you simply don't read or comprehend. When you even mention Wise and Damascus in the same sentence with FH you are already making a comparison. I already gave you the stats, which you ignored because Wise and Damascus were 5 spots higher than the teams they beat. They play Top 10 opponents every year in the playoffs. FH ran off 4 in a row versus Havre De Grace type of competition. FH #8 versus HDG #70. Congrats you're legendary. We beat Silver Oak with 12 kids on the roster, we're great!! And to be clear, I never said FH should play Wise. I have said numerous times that if you use the excuse that FH can't play 4A schools (your words) it's hypocritical to turn around and play 4A Walter Johnson. I have made that very clear, you're just twisting my words for the sake of your anemic argument. It's not legendary to drop Martinsburg and weasel out of the agreement with 1A Friendship. And I'll still be surprised if the Erie game next year is played. And now that the Walter Johnson program has bounced back, let's see how anxious you guys are to play them now.

And here you go with more crazy talk. I already mentioned your nonsense about the "boatloads" of college offers. I have never heard any coach or admin describe Allegany or FH as legends. You must be drinking some of that fermented Lemonade, lol. I understand you are proud of your schools but there are very few high school programs in Maryland that are considered legendary. DeMatha basketball under Morgan Wooten, and the Dunbar (Balt) basketball program under Sugar Cain (look him up because you probably don't know about him) and Bob Wade, are legendary because they rose to national prominence. You can ask people anywhere in the state and they will know about those two programs. Once you get east of Frederick people don't know about Alco or FH. If I mention Cumberland most people downstate are think I'm talking about Columbia in Howard Co. In the Balt/DC area coaches are focused on their own rivals, which usually aren't in 1A. Admins in Moco/PG/SoMd couldn't find FH on a map. Dunbar (Balt) football isn't legendary either. When is the last time they beat another team of any significance? I can't even put DeMatha football in the legendary column. Whatever team wins the NFC East this season will be champions, are they legendary?

FH 4 in a row is a state record.
Dunbar 7 out of 9 is a state record
Both Coach of The Year
That is all you need to know.

10 years of the same copy and paste from Boyz trying to discount record setting 1A programs on multiple forums. Don't you have anything new to add? Try helping kids for once instead of trying to diminish their worth behind a screen name. How many schools have you helped find games and how many kids have you helped get to college? Yap, yap, yap from a person who knows nothing about those subjects. It's my understanding that you never even played organized football. True that?

Although your greatest schedule logic was a beaut. "Hey, do you guys want to play us in a football game?" "No we already have an opponent that week." "OK then you must be ducking us." Now that's funny.

And no, you were the first to bring up comparing FH to higher classes: Those kinds of things happen in 1A because 1A is simply not playing at the same level as the rest of the state. And in response to such a moronic statement - No shit! Should 1A be playing the same level at all the higher classes? LOL.

 

[Lagmeister]

Some good humility in that post, which isn't easy when your squad has been as good as FH has been for the past decade or so and gets a loss like Catoctin gave you. Believe me, as an Alco guy, it still amazes me. A couple of us were kicking it around this past weekend, trying to figure out how our program has fallen to where it's at now, what's different from how it was when we played and how it can get back to a more competitive level.

Even our FH buddies who were there with us agreed that hey, FH just ran out of gas this season. I agree with them, plus like everyone has stated here already, y'all lost 2 key coaches and a boat load of starters from last year. That's hard to come back from at any level, but especially 1A where our programs have the fewest amount of resources in terms of bodies, coaches with external influences and experience, exposure to a lot of other outside variables, etc.

I said it earlier this week though, you guys went 11-2 and made it to the final four in the state. The fact that there's a lot of discussion and complaining about it means that the program is very strong and the expectations are high, which is exactly what you want.

So overall, a good season for the kids and the coaches. If a lot of players return and coaching changes are minimal, then FH is setting up for another good one next year.

Good point about Belichick and Saban always losing key assistants... both at the top of their games as head coaches, but even they're both having down years this season. It's cyclical, every good run has dips and every good run comes to an end.

Then too, we will never see a Robinette Alco team face another Ty Johnson FH team again. In fact, playing a 1 or 2 win Alco each year in Homecoming may deny FH home field advantage. As the football school in a three school town, FH will always be there. This year's loss is a bump in the road.

 

[TDHelmick]

A schedule consisting of golden brown sponge cake filled with delectable creamy filling.

And all the other 1A schedules in Maryland were different how?
I get that you expect more out of FH compared to everyone else, but be somewhat realistic.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...r7rffdqn67f7&usg=AOvVaw0wTCnloexFTqBWoSDGK74Z

 

[theprocessworks]

that Alco team was certainly very good. However Chestnut Ridge had their way with them that year. I think it was the week after the Dunbar game.

 

[Lagmeister]

4 in a row is a state record.
7 out of 9 is a state record (maybe 8 out of 10)
Coach of The Year
That is all you need to know.

10 years of the same copy and paste from Boyz trying to discount record setting 1A programs on multiple forums. Don't you have anything new to add? Try helping kids for once instead of trying to diminish their worth behind a screen name. How many schools have you helped find games and how many kids have you helped get to college? Yap, yap, yap from a person who knows nothing about those subjects. It's my understanding that you never even played organized football. True that?

Although your greatest schedule logic was a beaut. "Hey, do you guys want to play us in a football game?" "No we already have an opponent that week." "OK then you must be ducking us." Now that's funny.

Sorry, but critical posts in this forum do not diminish any student athlete anywhere. If that were true, every red-jacket should have put on sackcloth and ashes, while flogging themselves through the streets of Keyser after trashing that program for dropping FH.... In fact, there wouldn't be any skin on the backs of the red-jackets at all if they gave themselves some old time repentance for trying to diminish the worth of Allegany year in and year out.

"... diminish their worth behind a screen name." What a hoot. Or, is it because the kids at FH are more sensitive? Did somebody post something in this forum before the Catoctin game that so demoralized the team that they never recovered? No. I don't think so. The coach and players are solely responsible for the outcome of the game.

Oh, and there's the knows nothing generalizations combined with the classic you never even played organized football. True that?

Hey, neither did I. Can I still have an opinion? Or, how about the mother of a student athlete? Can she have an opinion? Or, how about the business owners who buy the Commercial vid ads? If they never played football can they post anonymously? Or.... how about the myriad of folks in the educational system who never played football but still fund and generally support high school football.... can they post an opinion in here?

And while we are on the subject of opinions.... how about the boring pregame TV shit for the NFL, loaded with the jockocracy - as Cosell often opined.... but I digress.

 

[MCsoccerplex]

[QUOTE="BoyznBlue, post: FH ran off 4 in a row versus Havre De Grace type of competition. FH #8 versus HDG #70. Congrats you're legendary. We beat Silver Oak with 12 kids on the roster, we're great!![/QUOTE]

Yes, FH played Silver Oak.

Now, I challenge you to look at the teams that played Silver Oak in 2018. Here, I will help you...

Middletown
Walkersville
Mount St. Joseph
Fort Hill
St. Frances
Allegany
Calvert Hall
Boonsboro
Friendship Collegiate Academy

Source: https://www.maxpreps.com/m/high-schools/silver-oak-academy-(keymar,md)/football-fall-18/schedule.htm

Never once did you criticize any team other than FH for playing Silver Oak. Why?