Local teams refusing to play each other debate

[TDHelmick]

Not sure if posters here have been following the debate about Alco and BW no longer playing in soccer, but an ex-coach wrote a letter to the CTN newspaper stating Local politics, egos ruin high school sports. See article here:

LINK: TIMES-NEWS ARTICLE

Then of course CTN ran their own follow up story. I have been debating this to some degree on Facebook. Although I'm not a huge fan of Facebook sports debates probably because I type fast and ramble long. In a nutshell here is the deal:

A couple of months ago the AMAC folded. Alco, Fort Hill and Mountain Ridge made the decision soon after to drop BW in boys basketball. In return BW has said if you don't play us in basketball we are not going to play you in other sports. Of which BW is now not playing Alco in soccer this fall.

I don't agree 100% with the letter to the editor from ex-BW soccer coach Joe Rowan, but a good point has been made in that adults, egos, politics, etc. have ruined some great opportunities for our local high school student-athletes. That and the fact nobody wants to see their kids get beaten with a lopsided score, or even beaten at all. I have seen it happen in all sports and at most every school. I hear it all the time -- "we have to do what is in the best interest of our kids." This is a very selfish act which takes no concern over how it affects the students at the other schools. So what has happened is that, well if you dropped us in this, we will drop you in that until we get what we currently have...nobody playing each other locally. If a team is really good at one sport, drop them. Every school is guilty of it.

My solution is simple - you form a local league that entails pee wee, youth league and high school sports. Alco, FH, Mtn Ridge, BW, Northern, Southern, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire. Everybody plays everybody is every sport, period. Doesn't matter what the final score is. There is no picking and choosing what sport you can play and what sport you cannot. If you cannot play in any one sport when you field a team in that sport, then you are out of the league. Simple. Done. End of discussion. That's how it's done. But we had that already when the AMAC formed. Then one after another teams stopped playing in every sport for their own reasons. Self interest ruined local sports.

 

[kkram]

All the local area do have teams that participate in pee wee football ( from Southern to Hampshire). The Tri- county basketball league also has almost all area school districts participate with the exception of Hampshire (I believe). Baseball different story just because of the numerous leagues, with the exception of Hot Stove where most of the area has at least one team that participates in the league except Oakland (don't understand why that is not happening).

The idea of the AMAC, in my opinion, was a good one but did not understand why teams some teams only played each other once a year (baseball). Not a lot of teams played each other in football yet basketball, it seemed everyone played each other in the league.

If you have read my posts in the past, I am a firm believer that all the area schools play each other, no matter what. As I have stated before, we have 5 1A Maryland schools with 1 hour of each other and yet I believe Allegany is the only school that plays all the others in football. Now I understand some schools don't want to play some schools due to whatever reason but, in my opinion, I have not heard a real good reason from anyone. All the schools/areas play each other in football up until 9th grade and I don't understand why it stops there.

I agree with TD 100% and from what I have heard, there may be a new league forming with the 5 1A schools where they all play each other in every sport, including football. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[BoyznBlue]

What is the reasoning for dropping BW in basketball? Why can't Alco/FH/MR play the BW "B" team?

Why can't the MPSSAA create a league/conference and force the 1A schools to play each other? It seems like WMD is the only place in the state that doesn't have one.

Is there any chance of going back to a CVAL type of schedule.

 

[cumbfanatic]

BW B team should play the local schools, I don’t know why they don’t.

 

[loco09]

Im not sure the dropping boys basketball games would have bothered BW as much if the other schools didn't dissolve the AMAC and not include them in the new conference for other sports. Honestly I don't think Coach Prete wants a full slate of local games but a few wouldn't have been a problem, especially the city games. Now a bunch of kids, across multiple sports, get the shaft because some adults get their panties in a bunch. As the article mentioned basketball and soccer are realistically the only sports BW competes in, volleyball, baseball, and softball have kind of been a wreck for a while. The others such as bowling, track, golf, cc, nobody really pays much attention to. I'm not saying all the fault falls on the public schools because if in fact BW gave an ultimatum either play us in boys hoops or we won't play you at all in anything that doesn't help anyone either. Its not like BW wants to pay to send its teams 2+ hours away a few times a week to play someone. Its all just unfortunate but not the first time people have got mad and dropped BW before.

 

[TDHelmick]

I have massive mixed feelings on all this for obvious reasons. I have put the FH football schedule together for 10 years. If BW would like I can show them just how deep the "nobody locally will play you" rabbit hole goes. However, it must be stated that BW dropped both Alco and FH in football the last 16 years they had a football program. 16 years is a long time to not play a city rival....yet no one complained about it and no ex-coaches wrote letters to the editor. It made sense for BW to do so and if I was pulling the strings for BW I would have made the same call. Now that Alco and FH is telling BW they won't play in basketball for the same reasons it should be treated with the same understanding. I don't want to hear football is different. That is BS. Because at Alco and FH (where basketball is in complete collapse right now) hoops is different. I see both sides. Admins did what they felt was best for their kids in both situations.

And BW has dropped others in multiple sports when their respective programs started to become depleted. I really do understand. But again, you have to be aware that both Alco and FH basketball has become depleted. BW did what it had to do to survive. I believe other schools should have that same right.

Then we have the WV schools who bailed on playing the city schools in football which then led to them dropping other AMAC schools in multiple sports as they saw fit. When you talk to the WV folks they will tell you they had to play more WV schools, they had to do this or that. Well yea, but that is all based on self-interest (what is best for your kids). None of that matters to the other local teams you dropped. You did what was best for you own kids. Well, that has to be a two way street. So don't cry when it the same happens to you. Basically, this dropping of local games in nothing new. I know why we have come to this -- because it is every man for himself. Your excuse for not playing someone does not outweigh our excuse for not playing someone.

From what I get talking with local school admins there is a huge concern with BW recruiting and plucking local student-athletes. It's already happened. BW has always done this. However, 30-40 years ago there were enough students to go around but that's not the case anymore. Tiny rural 1A schools just cannot survive a private school taking their kids so they will fight to stop it. You start taking away the best Cumberland athletes, Alco and FH basketball may collapse. The two city teams posted an 8-32 record last year and the future doesn't look much better. So as I said, they are going to make decisions just like BW basketball did in an effort to survive. Unfortunately dropping schools has spilled into other sports it seems based on spite. Again, like I said...FH had everyone locally bail in football but you didn't see them drop those teams in other sports. And look where FH football is now. And look where BW basketball is now. I wouldn't let this local schools dropping you affect your goals.

As for this BW two varsity basketball team set up they are attempting to do with an A and a B team I don't understand how the MPSSAA can approve it. One team has to play games that won't count. After talking at length with the MPSSAA they can mix the rosters. One game a kid can play on Team A the next game the same kid can play on Team B. There is no way to keep track of it other than a promise from BW that they won't do it of which was not acceptable. When I talk with other area basketball coaches they tell me you essentially now have not one private basketball school recruiting kids now you have two private basketball schools recruiting kids. BW can now tell 7th and 8th graders that they can come in and play varsity right away and not have to worry about making the travel squad. It's a recruiting tool. Me personally, if a kid wants to play hoops at BW it's their life and they have the right to choose where they want to go. But you have to make their one varsity team just like at every other school in Maryland.

Talking with the BW folks I know, it seems they have a definite interest in making other sports along the same lines as basketball. They are building a larger dorm to house those D1 type kids coming here from far away to play athletics. I think it's pretty cool but I don't believe it has a place trying to compete against these tiny 1A public schools we have here. They will have to discover a way to fill schedules with teams from a much greater distance. We are now seeing this first hand. It's why they separate public from private in MD with PA soon to follow. I've had to do it with FH football. BW will be OK with it too.

Much of what I typed here I copied and pasted form the Facebook debate.

 

[OneRing]

Not sure if posters here have been following the debate about Alco and BW no longer playing in soccer, but an ex-coach wrote a letter to the CTN newspaper stating Local politics, egos ruin high school sports. See article here:

LINK: TIMES-NEWS ARTICLE

Then of course CTN ran their own follow up story. I have been debating this to some degree on Facebook. Although I'm not a huge fan of Facebook sports debates probably because I type fast and ramble long. In a nutshell here is the deal:

A couple of months ago the AMAC folded. Alco, Fort Hill and Mountain Ridge made the decision soon after to drop BW in boys basketball. In return BW has said if you don't play us in basketball we are not going to play you in other sports. Of which BW is now not playing Alco in soccer this fall.

I don't agree 100% with the letter to the editor from ex-BW soccer coach Joe Rowan, but a good point has been made in that adults, egos, politics, etc. have ruined some great opportunities for our local high school student-athletes. That and the fact nobody wants to see their kids get beaten with a lopsided score, or even beaten at all. I have seen it happen in all sports and at most every school. I hear it all the time -- "we have to do what is in the best interest of our kids." This is a very selfish act which takes no concern over how it affects the students at the other schools. So what has happened is that, well if you dropped us in this, we will drop you in that until we get what we currently have...nobody playing each other locally. If a team is really good at one sport, drop them. Every school is guilty of it.

My solution is simple - you form a local league that entails pee wee, youth league and high school sports. Alco, FH, Mtn Ridge, BW, Northern, Southern, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire. Everybody plays everybody is every sport, period. Doesn't matter what the final score is. There is no picking and choosing what sport you can play and what sport you cannot. If you cannot play in any one sport when you field a team in that sport, then you are out of the league. Simple. Done. End of discussion. That's how it's done. But we had that already when the AMAC formed. Then one after another teams stopped playing in every sport for their own reasons. Self interest ruined local sports.

Simple solution, sure... but I dont see how it would ever be implemented. There's still no real incentive for any level. Why would hot stove refuse thousands of dollars from all of the west virginia and Garrett county teams, just because they dont play FH in football? Imagine all the other teams gone from not playing BW in basketball now.

What would stop every team in the CAYFL that isnt the Patriots from forming their own league? You got all the WV and Garrett teams that arent playing FH, and then you go to MR and Braddock and say, hey you can join us and have a better chance to win.

A rule like this would hurt the youth leagues much more than I think it could help the higher levels.

 

[TDHelmick]

All the local area do have teams that participate in pee wee football ( from Southern to Hampshire). The Tri- county basketball league also has almost all area school districts participate with the exception of Hampshire (I believe). Baseball different story just because of the numerous leagues, with the exception of Hot Stove where most of the area has at least one team that participates in the league except Oakland (don't understand why that is not happening).

The idea of the AMAC, in my opinion, was a good one but did not understand why teams some teams only played each other once a year (baseball). Not a lot of teams played each other in football yet basketball, it seemed everyone played each other in the league.

If you have read my posts in the past, I am a firm believer that all the area schools play each other, no matter what. As I have stated before, we have 5 1A Maryland schools with 1 hour of each other and yet I believe Allegany is the only school that plays all the others in football. Now I understand some schools don't want to play some schools due to whatever reason but, in my opinion, I have not heard a real good reason from anyone. All the schools/areas play each other in football up until 9th grade and I don't understand why it stops there.

I agree with TD 100% and from what I have heard, there may be a new league forming with the 5 1A schools where they all play each other in every sport, including football. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

I'm really good friends with your AD Matt. We have some great discussions through the years. I asked him about playing BW in basketball and he thinks it's a great opportunity. I couldn't agree more for Southern. But on the same token I did ask him how he would feel if they took one or two of his best players and he replied with that would be the end of it. There isn't a local coach I know that doesn't cringe at the thought of losing their best players. WMD schools are so small right now. Losing just one kid to an injury is devastating as Southern knows from the post season. It's tough to know what's right. In the end it seems coaches and admins are going to stick with doing what's best for their program.

 

[loco09]

As Todd says ultimately the BW basketball program will be fine, their goals are way beyond anything in this area competition wise, just as the FH football program has been fine. Arguably BW will be in better shape as they have the resources and ability to find games whereas FH is more limited. But its not the FH football players or the BW boys basketball players that will suffer, its the kids and coaches in other sports that get caught in the crossfire. I dont know all the facts of how everything went down so I'm not assigning blame to one group or another, its just sad adults can't step up and put egos aside. And the whole argument about BW taking the best players, they have always had the ability and its never been an issue before, I realize the program is different now but lets be honest, there is a talent good enough to play for a program like BW's now once every decade or so around here.

 

[TDHelmick]

Simple solution, sure... but I dont see how it would ever be implemented. There's still no real incentive for any level. Why would hot stove refuse thousands of dollars from all of the west virginia and Garrett county teams, just because they dont play FH in football? Imagine all the other teams gone from not playing BW in basketball now.

What would stop every team in the CAYFL that isnt the Patriots from forming their own league? You got all the WV and Garrett teams that arent playing FH, and then you go to MR and Braddock and say, hey you can join us and have a better chance to win.

A rule like this would hurt the youth leagues much more than I think it could help the higher levels.

No doubt. Everything you say about the youth leagues would definitely create a total cluster freak out. Unfortunately there is no solution. Local teams just won't play local teams at the high school level and it is what it is.

Although if you think about it, hot stove and Dapper Dan baseball is not tied into local schools. Baseball is a summer thing unlike football and basketball which absolutely do tie into their respective schools. You can call them the Patriots, Warriors, Ridgeley, Keyser, Frostburg but we all know what associated high school district they are affiliated with. Basketball is totally tied in at the lower levels. Not so in baseball.

 

[TDHelmick]

As Todd says ultimately the BW basketball program will be fine, their goals are way beyond anything in this area competition wise, just as the FH football program has been fine. Arguably BW will be in better shape as they have the resources and ability to find games whereas FH is more limited. But its not the FH football players or the BW boys basketball players that will suffer, its the kids and coaches in other sports that get caught in the crossfire. I dont know all the facts of how everything went down so I'm not assigning blame to one group or another, its just sad adults can't step up and put egos aside. And the whole argument about BW taking the best players, they have always had the ability and its never been an issue before, I realize the program is different now but lets be honest, there is a talent good enough to play for a program like BW's now once every decade or so around here.

I have asked BW folks in the know and I will ask you the same...what is BW's interest in forming a second varsity basketball team? There is rarely a local kid that can crack that traveling team line up so the recruiting blow likely won't be that bad for other local schools. Unless they build a 2nd varsity team. That hurts big time in regards to the public schools around here. The million dollar question would be how far is BW looking to go with other sports in regards to bringing top athletes here from far away? These are extremely important questions for other local admins. If BW is only interested in making boys basketball what it is I don't see a problem. But if other sports take this road (and they are going to try from what I hear) the same result will happen in the other sports with locals dropping them completely. Behind closed doors, that is the reason BW was not invited to join the new WMIL league. Because of their intent on building the same with other sports.

 

[loco09]

I don't see them elevating other sports for a few years at least. Girls basketball just hired a local coach, who I do not know but shows me they do not intend on elevating the girls bball program to a national level immediately, which would make sense as the next program to elevate. I don't see them doing much with other sports, maybe I'm wrong but i dont see anything other than maybe the girls bball program within the next 3-5 years.

As for having 2 separate varsity teams I don't see it, what I could see is having one big team 15-20 players where there are games the "national level" players sit out or perhaps even are off playing another game. It makes it tricky to determine what counts for a record and not sure what the MPSSAA would say but there would be no bonus pts since its not football. Other schools have done that method, i remember Wilson in DC playing 2 games on the same day with their team basically split in 2. I would like to see 2 separate teams if the numbers allow it but again if the MPSSAA wont sanction it not sure its worth it

 

[BrianH1974]

If FH built a 2nd football varsity team and went around the area recruiting the other schools best football players this entire area would go into complete meltdown. No local school would play them in anything. LOL

 

[ConeyIsland]

Simple solution, sure... but I dont see how it would ever be implemented. There's still no real incentive for any level. Why would hot stove refuse thousands of dollars from all of the west virginia and Garrett county teams, just because they dont play FH in football? Imagine all the other teams gone from not playing BW in basketball now.

What would stop every team in the CAYFL that isnt the Patriots from forming their own league? You got all the WV and Garrett teams that arent playing FH, and then you go to MR and Braddock and say, hey you can join us and have a better chance to win.

A rule like this would hurt the youth leagues much more than I think it could help the higher levels.

Speaking of refusing money, BW (wisely) capitalizing on their revamped basketball product, etc. I have a question for Todd on a rumor I heard Friday:

Under Armour met with Coach Appel and offered to sponsor the FH program. There's a lot I don't know about what was on the table, but certainly the full outfitting of gear and equipment was, not sure if money for travel, food etc. was. Regardless, the stipulation UA wanted was some level of black included in the FH uniforms they were going to design. Because of that, Coach Appel said no thanks, and it's a wrap.

Before I allege anyone of being crazy, stupid or both here, I'd like to understand the full story as much as possible. Anyone have the scoop?

 

[TDHelmick]

Speaking of refusing money, BW (wisely) capitalizing on their revamped basketball product, etc. I have a question for Todd on a rumor I heard Friday:

Under Armour met with Coach Appel and offered to sponsor the FH program. There's a lot I don't know about what was on the table, but certainly the full outfitting of gear and equipment was, not sure if money for travel, food etc. was. Regardless, the stipulation UA wanted was some level of black included in the FH uniforms they were going to design. Because of that, Coach Appel said no thanks, and it's a wrap.

Before I allege anyone of being crazy, stupid or both here, I'd like to understand the full story as much as possible. Anyone have the scoop?

Oddly enough, the Baltimore Ravens have donated decent amount of monies to the Dunbar football program. The one year they came here for the Queen City Quad (2011) they all had a Ravens patch on their jersey. Coach Smith told me the Ravens purchased their uniforms. I thought this was a great idea. So I made a request with the MPSSAA to allow CSX Railroad or the Western Maryland Health System to purchase equipment for the local schools if we put a company logo patch on the uniforms. The MPSSAA told me that was not permitted. So why was the Ravens patch on Dunbar uniforms then? I got the run around on that one. And don't get me wrong, I thought it was totally awesome Dunbar had this. I just wanted local kids to get the same cool deal where everybody wins.

I have made a new push to see if Western Maryland Lemonade can buy the FH uniforms if they put a Paw Paw Lemonade patch on the shoulder. Coach Delawder has filed an injunction to stop it before it even gets to the MPSSAA level.

 

[Lagmeister]

Not sure if posters here have been following the debate about Alco and BW no longer playing in soccer, but an ex-coach wrote a letter to the CTN newspaper stating Local politics, egos ruin high school sports. See article here:

LINK: TIMES-NEWS ARTICLE

Then of course CTN ran their own follow up story. I have been debating this to some degree on Facebook. Although I'm not a huge fan of Facebook sports debates probably because I type fast and ramble long. In a nutshell here is the deal:

A couple of months ago the AMAC folded. Alco, Fort Hill and Mountain Ridge made the decision soon after to drop BW in boys basketball. In return BW has said if you don't play us in basketball we are not going to play you in other sports. Of which BW is now not playing Alco in soccer this fall.

I don't agree 100% with the letter to the editor from ex-BW soccer coach Joe Rowan, but a good point has been made in that adults, egos, politics, etc. have ruined some great opportunities for our local high school student-athletes. That and the fact nobody wants to see their kids get beaten with a lopsided score, or even beaten at all. I have seen it happen in all sports and at most every school. I hear it all the time -- "we have to do what is in the best interest of our kids." This is a very selfish act which takes no concern over how it affects the students at the other schools. So what has happened is that, well if you dropped us in this, we will drop you in that until we get what we currently have...nobody playing each other locally. If a team is really good at one sport, drop them. Every school is guilty of it.

My solution is simple - you form a local league that entails pee wee, youth league and high school sports. Alco, FH, Mtn Ridge, BW, Northern, Southern, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire. Everybody plays everybody is every sport, period. Doesn't matter what the final score is. There is no picking and choosing what sport you can play and what sport you cannot. If you cannot play in any one sport when you field a team in that sport, then you are out of the league. Simple. Done. End of discussion. That's how it's done. But we had that already when the AMAC formed. Then one after another teams stopped playing in every sport for their own reasons. Self interest ruined local sports.

My solution is simple - you form a local league that entails pee wee, youth league and high school sports. Alco, FH, Mtn Ridge, BW, Northern, Southern, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire. Everybody plays everybody is every sport, period. Doesn't matter what the final score is

- Rise and cheer! No more long traveling - only stomping into unrecognizable mush the local smallish and few, and with it any historic semblance of high school football.

 

[TDHelmick]

My solution is simple - you form a local league that entails pee wee, youth league and high school sports. Alco, FH, Mtn Ridge, BW, Northern, Southern, Frankfort, Keyser, Hampshire. Everybody plays everybody is every sport, period. Doesn't matter what the final score is

- Rise and cheer! No more long traveling - only stomping into unrecognizable mush the local smallish and few, and with it any historic semblance of high school football.

Why should it stop with just football? Let's stomp every sport into unrecognizable much. Nobody has to play anybody locally if the other team is too good. In fact I would even say local basketball and baseball has become extremely poor in comparison to local football. So this new proposal could say everyone play everyone with these exceptions:

Don't have to play BW boys basketball
Don't have to play FH football
Don't have to play Southern girls basketball or wrestling
Don't have to play Frankfort baseball
Don't have to play Alco softball

Because this is actually what's starting to happen.

 

[Lagmeister]

Speaking of refusing money, BW (wisely) capitalizing on their revamped basketball product, etc. I have a question for Todd on a rumor I heard Friday:

Under Armour met with Coach Appel and offered to sponsor the FH program. There's a lot I don't know about what was on the table, but certainly the full outfitting of gear and equipment was, not sure if money for travel, food etc. was. Regardless, the stipulation UA wanted was some level of black included in the FH uniforms they were going to design. Because of that, Coach Appel said no thanks, and it's a wrap.

Before I allege anyone of being crazy, stupid or both here, I'd like to understand the full story as much as possible. Anyone have the scoop?

Maybe they would have to actually franchise with additional scrutiny and admit to what the hell has been going on around here as far as how a 1A school in a rural city has been getting all the talent. Surely, it would be a 'Papal type' recognition of a 'football school' and a per student assessment of where each and every player came from. Does FH get only a handle-full of its players not from its geographic locations? If so, are they key starters? Or does FH actually get up to a quarter of its players from surrounding areas.

 

[BrianH1974]

ISince the youth league South Cumberland pee wee teams and the Patriots youth league teams are dominating by astounding numbers I hear Under Armour is building more free housing at Old Towne Manor Apts to provide the families of great elementary school student-athletes to play at FH 7 years down the road. Alco will counter with a dorm in old Woodchux bar to house local softball pitchers who want a college scholarship to play softball. BW has said they will no longer play Alco in any girls sports.

 

[theprocessworks]

Here is most of the FH starters from the 2018 championship team that many on here gave no shot to win anything and their geography
Brehm south Cumberland
Trimble Bedford road area
Swan outer Frederick st
Beal Bedford road
King east side
Smith, Adkins Powell South Cumberland
Bishop South Cumberland
Uhl constitution park
Crabtree cash valley
Haines Bel Air
Appel Bedford rd area
Plummer South Cumberland
Jackson south Cumberland
Little maple side
Burt outer Bedford st
Metz South Cumberland
There’s 17 with 1 questionable and that ones father grew up in the heart of south end

 

[BrianH1974]

Here is most of the FH starters from the 2018 championship team that many on here gave no shot to win anything and their geography
Brehm south Cumberland
Trimble Bedford road area
Swan outer Frederick st
Beal Bedford road
King east side
Smith, Adkins Powell South Cumberland
Bishop South Cumberland
Uhl constitution park
Crabtree cash valley
Appel Bedford rd area
Plummer South Cumberland
Jackson south Cumberland
Little maple side
Burt outer Bedford st
Metz South Cumberland
There’s 16 with 1 questionable and that ones father grew up in the heart of south end

going even farther how many of those kids father's went to and played football at FH. I think all but the kicker and maybe one other. LOL

 

[cumbfanatic]

Last year BW played a few games with their jv plus a couple varsity players that got minimal playing time. A couple of those varsity players were local players. That is the team I was referring to as their B team rather than a complete seperate full varsity team

 

[RedPride97]

going even farther how many of those kids father's went to and played football at FH. I think all but the kicker and maybe one other. LOL

And whats wrong with that

 

[theprocessworks]

Big Red Nation runs deep

 

[eaglesinsider]

Oddly enough, the Baltimore Ravens have donated decent amount of monies to the Dunbar football program. The one year they came here for the Queen City Quad (2011) they all had a Ravens patch on their jersey. Coach Smith told me the Ravens purchased their uniforms. I thought this was a great idea. So I made a request with the MPSSAA to allow CSX Railroad or the Western Maryland Health System to purchase equipment for the local schools if we put a company logo patch on the uniforms. The MPSSAA told me that was not permitted. So why was the Ravens patch on Dunbar uniforms then? I got the run around on that one. And don't get me wrong, I thought it was totally awesome Dunbar had this. I just wanted local kids to get the same cool deal where everybody wins.

I believe it was permitted because the Ravens bought uniforms for every Baltimore City school at once. They've done this 2 or 3 times over the past decade. Dunbar gets most of their money from Under Armour now. The Ravens may also have been told to stop putting their logo on because the last round of jerseys they bought everyone a few years ago had no Ravens logo on them at all.

 

[eaglesinsider]

If I was the MPSSAA tsar, I would scrap the self made conferences and immediately mandate section play in every sport. In football, the 8 section champions make the playoffs automatically and then the next 16 highest points totals would get in.

If you refuse to play in your section then you are ineligible for the postseason in that sport. In the states with the best public school football, that's how it's done. It's not a Saint Frances situation. Fort Hill isn't bringing kids in from France. They're not even loading up on transfers like Wise or Quince Orchard.

1A West Section 1 Football would be Fort Hill, Allegany, Mountain Ridge, Northern Garrett, Southern Garrett and Hancock. The last 5 weeks of the regular season would be district play. Hancock could play independent if they were ok with not going to the playoffs (which I think they would be).

Aledo in TX hasn't lost a district game since 2007, when they dropped their first two games. They've played mostly the same schools during that period as they're grouped geographically by size. All the schools in their district still play them despite the following margins of victory:
2007- 24, 58, 48, 36
2008- 42, 44, 42, 15, 56, 54, 35
2009- 53, 26, 42, 45, 27, 25, 35
2010- 64, 41, 57, 46, 73, 23, 48
2011- 45, 62, 43, 43, 46, 25, 45
2012- 43, 49, 36, 56, 16, 63, 52
2013- 77, 61, 77, 91, 56, 66, 56
2014- 62, 28, 21, 22, 64, 59, 35
2015- 70, 28, 21, 35, 56, 68, 51
2016- 69, 63, 69, 45, 43, 34, 25
2017- 49, 45, 50, 39, 52, 49, 9
2018- 47, 19, 40, 46, 36, 66, 44, 42

If you're keeping track that's ZERO one score district games over 12 seasons and only two 2 score games in that same time span during which they've also won 7 5A state championships. In 2013 they finished ranked in the National Top 25 and didn't have a district game closer than 56 points.

 

[Lagmeister]

Here is most of the FH starters from the 2018 championship team that many on here gave no shot to win anything and their geography
Brehm south Cumberland
Trimble Bedford road area
Swan outer Frederick st
Beal Bedford road
King east side
Smith, Adkins Powell South Cumberland
Bishop South Cumberland
Uhl constitution park
Crabtree cash valley
Appel Bedford rd area
Plummer South Cumberland
Jackson south Cumberland
Little maple side
Burt outer Bedford st
Metz South Cumberland
There’s 16 with 1 questionable and that ones father grew up in the heart of south end

FH is quite deep beyond the starters. The question has always been how FH gets its depth of talent beyond a normal 1A school; in fact, having a recruited young man who virtually did not play last season. How many of its total varsity, jv and freshman teams actually live within the FH district. Where a parent went to school is insignificant, really.

We always get the 'most' or 'many' of the first team who hits the field. If FH only has 16 starters living in its district.... hell, that sounds like the total number of true starters for Alco, who has to fill with underclassmen. But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?

It begs the question as to how many in its total football program actually live within the FH district. Fact is, even on a 1A team if FH has 4 starters in key positions that normally would go to Alco that would be significant.

Make no mistake: I believe in the mobility between schools, but for me it would be academics. No child should be trapped in an under performing school. Here too, since the schools allow transfer for sports... well, so be it also. Just be frickin' honest about it and stop suggesting any local school should have to play all other local schools in a given sport. That's my only position.

 

[Lagmeister]

I believe it was permitted because the Ravens bought uniforms for every Baltimore City school at once. They've done this 2 or 3 times over the past decade. Dunbar gets most of their money from Under Armour now. The Ravens may also have been told to stop putting their logo on because the last round of jerseys they bought everyone a few years ago had no Ravens logo on them at all.

Good marketing. Good idea overall. More businesses should do this and spare expenses for the schools.

 

[Lagmeister]

If I was the MPSSAA tsar, I would scrap the self made conferences and immediately mandate section play in every sport. In football, the 8 section champions make the playoffs automatically and then the next 16 highest points totals would get in.

If you refuse to play in your section then you are ineligible for the postseason in that sport. In the states with the best public school football, that's how it's done. It's not a Saint Frances situation. Fort Hill isn't bringing kids in from France. They're not even loading up on transfers like Wise or Quince Orchard.

1A West Section 1 Football would be Fort Hill, Allegany, Mountain Ridge, Northern Garrett, Southern Garrett and Hancock. The last 5 weeks of the regular season would be district play. Hancock could play independent if they were ok with not going to the playoffs (which I think they would be).

Aledo in TX hasn't lost a district game since 2007, when they dropped their first two games. They've played mostly the same schools during that period as they're grouped geographically by size. All the schools in their district still play them despite the following margins of victory:
2007- 24, 58, 48, 36
2008- 42, 44, 42, 15, 56, 54, 35
2009- 53, 26, 42, 45, 27, 25, 35
2010- 64, 41, 57, 46, 73, 23, 48
2011- 45, 62, 43, 43, 46, 25, 45
2012- 43, 49, 36, 56, 16, 63, 52
2013- 77, 61, 77, 91, 56, 66, 56
2014- 62, 28, 21, 22, 64, 59, 35
2015- 70, 28, 21, 35, 56, 68, 51
2016- 69, 63, 69, 45, 43, 34, 25
2017- 49, 45, 50, 39, 52, 49, 9
2018- 47, 19, 40, 46, 36, 66, 44, 42

If you're keeping track that's ZERO one score district games over 12 seasons and only two 2 score games in that same time span during which they've also won 7 5A state championships. In 2013 they finished ranked in the National Top 25 and didn't have a district game closer than 56 points.

Allegany should drop FH rather than potentially play them an additional game after having played them in a shortened regular season. Allegany could easily get 10 competitive games and then tell the state to cram it. Why should the Campers be one of a couple of competitive playoff tuneups that FH actually schedules.

 

[BrianH1974]

FH is quite deep beyond the starters. The question has always been how FH gets its depth of talent beyond a normal 1A school; in fact, having a recruited young man who virtually did not play last season. How many of its total varsity, jv and freshman teams actually live within the FH district. Where a parent went to school is insignificant, really.

We always get the 'most' or 'many' of the first team who hits the field. If FH only has 16 starters living in its district.... hell, that sounds like the total number of true starters for Alco, who has to fill with underclassmen. But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?

It begs the question as to how many in its total football program actually live within the FH district. Fact is, even on a 1A team if FH has 4 starters in key positions that normally would go to Alco that would be significant.

Make no mistake: I believe in the mobility between schools, but for me it would be academics. No child should be trapped in an under performing school. Here too, since the schools allow transfer for sports... well, so be it also. Just be frickin' honest about it and stop suggesting any local school should have to play all other local schools in a given sport. That's my only position.

Like many it seems you really have no idea how many FH kids live or donot live in their district. So the fact you make assumptions and try to accept them as fact isn't an intelligent way to discuss such things. You did ask a question and got a defenitive answer. The fact over 90% of the FH starters last year had their parent or parents attend FH is actually extremely significant and something i dont expect a non-FH grad to grasp. That is why FH continues to carry on. Big Red pride runs extra deep. It's something that was lost at Alco for some reason or another long ago. I don't say that to be arrogant. It's easy to spot even based on crowd size at home and away games.

The truth is FH is no more talented than they have been the last 30 years. They just play in 1A now and all the local teams have gotten worse, especially at Alco. FH jist stayed the course. But the backbone that is FH football is its strength in allegiance and in a coaching staff that is all FH ex-players and has been together so long. The entire varsity roster is pretty much comprised of kids who played together as freshmen and even back in elementary school. They rarely ever have a kid transfer into the program to play their senior year here. Almost never.

Most important is their feeder system. If their pwe wee and youth teams dominate that should be all you need to know. If it displeases you to believe families come to the FH district with children in elementary school to make sure their off spring attends the same high school they proudly graduated from then you sir will never get it.

Once again, the entire starting lineup last year lives in the FH district. All but 3 I m not positive on had their parent go to FH. The kicker didn't but his father was the vice principal at FH for a dozen years. The next time anyone raises the question about FH kids coming in from other districts read what I just typed. That is your answer.

 

[nomad974]

I believe it was permitted because the Ravens bought uniforms for every Baltimore City school at once. They've done this 2 or 3 times over the past decade.

This is correct. Quince Orchard had a deal with Nike in the works a decade or so ago. It didn't even get past the county level. They were told Nike would have to work with all the schools in Montgomery county in order for it to go through.

However, I do believe individual donations are permitted. Like Darnell Dockett buying pants, shoes etc. for Paint Branch.

 

[BoyznBlue]

FH is quite deep beyond the starters. The question has always been how FH gets its depth of talent beyond a normal 1A school; in fact, having a recruited young man who virtually did not play last season. How many of its total varsity, jv and freshman teams actually live within the FH district. Where a parent went to school is insignificant, really.

We always get the 'most' or 'many' of the first team who hits the field. If FH only has 16 starters living in its district.... hell, that sounds like the total number of true starters for Alco, who has to fill with underclassmen. But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?

It begs the question as to how many in its total football program actually live within the FH district. Fact is, even on a 1A team if FH has 4 starters in key positions that normally would go to Alco that would be significant.

Make no mistake: I believe in the mobility between schools, but for me it would be academics. No child should be trapped in an under performing school. Here too, since the schools allow transfer for sports... well, so be it also. Just be frickin' honest about it and stop suggesting any local school should have to play all other local schools in a given sport. That's my only position.

Lag is making a legit point here. Brown and Banks, were the Area Player-of-the-Year from 2015 through 2017, and I believe they both came up playing for youth league teams on the Allegany side. If those two had played for Alco it may have been a different outcome during those seasons.

I also believe in mobility between schools. Freedom always benefits the student, even if a few schools do abuse the system. It's better than a kid being stuck in a bad situation with bad coaching. Or not being allowed to attend a certain school for academic reasons, which - as you noted - is the main reason for the transfer rules in the first place.

 

[BoyznBlue]

If I was the MPSSAA tsar, I would scrap the self made conferences and immediately mandate section play in every sport. In football, the 8 section champions make the playoffs automatically and then the next 16 highest points totals would get in.

If you refuse to play in your section then you are ineligible for the postseason in that sport. In the states with the best public school football, that's how it's done. It's not a Saint Frances situation. Fort Hill isn't bringing kids in from France. They're not even loading up on transfers like Wise or Quince Orchard.

1A West Section 1 Football would be Fort Hill, Allegany, Mountain Ridge, Northern Garrett, Southern Garrett and Hancock. The last 5 weeks of the regular season would be district play. Hancock could play independent if they were ok with not going to the playoffs (which I think they would be).

Aledo in TX hasn't lost a district game since 2007, when they dropped their first two games. They've played mostly the same schools during that period as they're grouped geographically by size. All the schools in their district still play them despite the following margins of victory:
2007- 24, 58, 48, 36
2008- 42, 44, 42, 15, 56, 54, 35
2009- 53, 26, 42, 45, 27, 25, 35
2010- 64, 41, 57, 46, 73, 23, 48
2011- 45, 62, 43, 43, 46, 25, 45
2012- 43, 49, 36, 56, 16, 63, 52
2013- 77, 61, 77, 91, 56, 66, 56
2014- 62, 28, 21, 22, 64, 59, 35
2015- 70, 28, 21, 35, 56, 68, 51
2016- 69, 63, 69, 45, 43, 34, 25
2017- 49, 45, 50, 39, 52, 49, 9
2018- 47, 19, 40, 46, 36, 66, 44, 42

If you're keeping track that's ZERO one score district games over 12 seasons and only two 2 score games in that same time span during which they've also won 7 5A state championships. In 2013 they finished ranked in the National Top 25 and didn't have a district game closer than 56 points.

I agree with this idea. I've noted previously that the MPSSAA should step in and create a conference and make everyone play each other.

But you're wrong about the Wise transfer policy, they allow about the same number of transfers as every other school in the state. I don't know enough to speak on the QO situation.

 

[alco65]

ISince the youth league South Cumberland pee wee teams and the Patriots youth league teams are dominating by astounding numbers I hear Under Armour is building more free housing at Old Towne Manor Apts to provide the families of great elementary school student-athletes to play at FH 7 years down the road. Alco will counter with a dorm in old Woodchux bar to house local softball pitchers who want a college scholarship to play softball. BW has said they will no longer play Alco in any girls sports.

Not only pitchers getting money for softball at Allegany

 

[alco65]

Lag is making a legit point here. Brown and Banks, were the Area Player-of-the-Year from 2015 through 2017, and I believe they both came up playing for youth league teams on the Allegany side. If those two had played for Alco it may have been a different outcome during those seasons.

I also believe in mobility between schools. Freedom always benefits the student, even if a few schools do abuse the system. It's better than a kid being stuck in a bad situation with bad coaching. Or not being allowed to attend a certain school for academic reasons, which - as you noted - is the main reason for the transfer rules in the first place.

Brown played at Cresaptown Eagles which is a mix and then played at Washington. Banks played at Braddock and started at FH in 9th grade

 

[OneRing]

something i dont expect a non-FH grad to grasp. Big Red pride runs extra deep.

Dont worry... non-FH grads dont expect FH grads to be able to properly explain anything. Big Red stupidity runs even deeper than its pride.

 

[Lagmeister]

Lag is making a legit point here. Brown and Banks, were the Area Player-of-the-Year from 2015 through 2017, and I believe they both came up playing for youth league teams on the Allegany side. If those two had played for Alco it may have been a different outcome during those seasons.

I also believe in mobility between schools. Freedom always benefits the student, even if a few schools do abuse the system. It's better than a kid being stuck in a bad situation with bad coaching. Or not being allowed to attend a certain school for academic reasons, which - as you noted - is the main reason for the transfer rules in the first place.

My singular point has always been to have high schools play their level of competition. If FH grads want to get their children into the FH system, so be it. If Alco grads want to get their children into the FH system... who cares. They both, however, should accept that their talented child may well ride the bench as well as ride the seat of a bus quite a distance - in turn, to ride the bench.

We have long since transplanted individual achievement with identity. Better to identify with a winner than win it yourself. Thread after thread and year after year I keep reading about FH pride.... Well shit, what about the young, the few and the over-matched young men from Alco that hit the field each year on homecoming. That single game gives those young Alco athletes more dignity and pride than every damn running clock that FH produces during the entire year.

 

[theprocessworks]

One ring, The question was asked "Does FH get only a handle-full of its players not from its geographic locations? If so, are they key starters? Or does FH actually get up to a quarter of its players from surrounding areas" by Lag. I know these kids very well and where they come from and gave the name and the location where they live. I gave the 15 or so names of the main starters on offense and defense along with the greatest kicker to ever came out of this area (who is from the east side). What wasn't explained "properly"? Now Lag decided to change it up after the response I gave and ask, " But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?" You see onering, first He asked if they were the "key starters", then when the response I gave didn't support his ideas, he came back with "But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?" I didn't give the areas where the 2 and 3 deep kids live because he originally only asked for the "key starters". So to now answer his second post about where FH kids live, I will just say that almost all, if not all kids on the FH roster from the 2018 state championship team live in FH territory.

 

[Lagmeister]

One ring, The question was asked "Does FH get only a handle-full of its players not from its geographic locations? If so, are they key starters? Or does FH actually get up to a quarter of its players from surrounding areas" by Lag. I know these kids very well and where they come from and gave the name and the location where they live. I gave the 15 or so names of the main starters on offense and defense along with the greatest kicker to ever came out of this area (who is from the east side). What wasn't explained "properly"? Now Lag decided to change it up after the response I gave and ask, " But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?" You see onering, first He asked if they were the "key starters", then when the response I gave didn't support his ideas, he came back with "But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?" I didn't give the areas where the 2 and 3 deep kids live because he originally only asked for the "key starters". So to now answer his second post about where FH kids live, I will just say that almost all, if not all kids on the FH roster from the 2018 state championship team live in FH territory.

FH is quite deep beyond the starters. The question has always been how FH gets its depth of talent beyond a normal 1A school; in fact, having a recruited young man who virtually did not play last season. How many of its total varsity, jv and freshman teams actually live within the FH district. Where a parent went to school is insignificant, really.

We always get the 'most' or 'many' of the first team who hits the field. If FH only has 16 starters living in its district.... hell, that sounds like the total number of true starters for Alco, who has to fill with underclassmen. But FH is two and in some cases three deep on varsity. And FH only has 16 who live in their district?

It begs the question as to how many in its total football program actually live within the FH district. Fact is, even on a 1A team if FH has 4 starters in key positions that normally would go to Alco that would be significant.

Please do not selectively edit as it can completely change the tenor of a response or a question.

 

[theprocessworks]

I simply responded to one rings insult by showing that your question was explained clearly and accurately. Your question wasn’t difficult to answer or explain.