Local teams refusing to play each other debate
- Thread starter TDHelmick
- Start date
What does that have to do with where the children's parents went to school?
If a kid grows up in another schools district but his father was from south end and he and the kid decided FH was the place, it’s reasonable to believe that the father had influence over the decision due to his love for his alumni. Even a FH alum can answer that one.
But you said almost no players live in another district, so what does an answer about how many FH players' dads playing at FH have to do with a question about the district they live in? FH alums really can't explain anything.
1 starter lived out of the district and his dad is a FH alum and wanted his son to win a ring. It worked out. Be happy for the kid
I know red. These guys have a hard time accepting that the FH system is a dominant force. They drive themselves nuts trying to make sense of it.
Why do you keep answering questions no one asked?
< The fact over 90% of the FH starters last year had their parent or parents attend FH is actually extremely significant>
How is that relevant to what district someone lives in?
It's a very simple question. You being unable to answer it is kind of proving my point.
I never posted anything about 90% of the FH parents. My first post simply stated 1 kid of the 18 I mentioned was out of district but his father was born and raised in South Cumberland. The post I think your referring to was made by someone else
Show me where I posted saying you did. I simply said how I dont expect a FH grad could explain to me their connection between the district someone lives in and pride in a school just because their dad went there. You then stepped in and starting answering for them, trying to explain it. Now that you couldn't explain it (see my statement about FH grads), you come back with "I never posted that."
I also don't expect a FH fan to understand how sad it is to everyone else that you take pride in the where daddy went to public school.
I believe you went as far as u can on this bro. You are trying to make an issue that has no relevance to Lags original post and questions. I responded and mentioned one kids father that may have had something to do with his out of district kid going to FH. That’s it give it a rest Einstein
Where a kid lives or who's dad played for FH or Alco doesn't matter guys. Y'all are talking in circles here about an issue that's older than Coach Brian and I. Said it a few months back - geo isn't a factor anymore. Plenty of kids live in one district and go to school in another. Even kids who live in WV go to a Cumberland school sometimes. I'm an Alco guy and the Robinettes all lived in South End. My dad played at FH and I played at Alco.
Now there's obvious appeal to playing at FH right now because they're a very well run program from top to bottom, despite Coach Appel not actively promoting the kids to college coaches, although that's a Cumberland thing that's gone on for decades at both schools, so nothing new there.
Point is, and I think Lags touched on this, you can be an individual on a lesser team like Alco, etc. or you can be part of a great team and organization like FH has been now for years. If I had a kid that I thought at some point had potential to play in college, if that were his goal, it'd be hard to not want him to go to FH. Even if your kid isn't a college prospect, FH is still the crown jewel of area football, so when you're talking about the best chance to have a great experience, then FH is a pretty safe bet.
Since this is another FH/Alco topic that I'm sure we'll all settle today once and for all....
The only way Alco can combat anything about the last decade or so is by turning into a winning program again and beating FH at some point.
Now there's obvious appeal to playing at FH right now because they're a very well run program from top to bottom, despite Coach Appel not actively promoting the kids to college coaches, although that's a Cumberland thing that's gone on for decades at both schools, so nothing new there.
Point is, and I think Lags touched on this, you can be an individual on a lesser team like Alco, etc. or you can be part of a great team and organization like FH has been now for years. If I had a kid that I thought at some point had potential to play in college, if that were his goal, it'd be hard to not want him to go to FH. Even if your kid isn't a college prospect, FH is still the crown jewel of area football, so when you're talking about the best chance to have a great experience, then FH is a pretty safe bet.
Since this is another FH/Alco topic that I'm sure we'll all settle today once and for all....
The only way Alco can combat anything about the last decade or so is by turning into a winning program again and beating FH at some point.Why do you keep providing further evidence to my claim by posting without being able to explain it. Actually it was BrianH who made an issue about something that was irrelevant to Lags post or question. You've frantically defended him since.
Ok since u make as much sense as an Alco Homecoming gameplan the past 11 years I’ll make this simple. 1) lags was seeking clarification on how many FH players lived out of district on the 2018 team. I gave him 18 of the most key players names and locations and 1 of those was out of district. I rationalized that the kids dad grew up in south end and was a huge FH supporter and that’s why the kid went to FH. That’s it, how’d we get here?
But it's already been answered. Out of the top 16 or so FH players, maybe only one lived outside the FH district. Regardless of where one or both of the parents attended high school...they all live in the district. Did they move here in elementary school? I don't know, but if you are digging that deep to make such a reference that kids move here to play football at FH you are grasping at some serious weird straws. The FH feeder programs are dominating local football leagues by larger margins than FH varsity. The Patriots D1 and D2 teams won it all by margins that are unthinkable. I don't know what more to tell you. I agree with what someone else posted...I don't believe FH has become a monster, I see the rest of the area football falling, just like basketball. FH just happened to keep playing good football through the decline of everyone else. It has nothing to do with kids living in other districts and playing for FH. That isn't even remotely the case, just a spiteful very uninformed accusation.
If you took every public and private school in Maryland with a football program (roughly 200 teams), I would be willing to bet the Allegany County schools have the lowest percentage of kids playing out of district. At least in the Top 10 of that list. On an occasion does a kid here or there play out of district? Of course. But it's not a prevalent thing as we see in more populated areas.
If you took every public and private school in Maryland with a football program (roughly 200 teams), I would be willing to bet the Allegany County schools have the lowest percentage of kids playing out of district. At least in the Top 10 of that list. On an occasion does a kid here or there play out of district? Of course. But it's not a prevalent thing as we see in more populated areas.
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That's why you hire a coach, to coach up your team... and I'd say fh is done a far better job in the last 12 or so years than anyone else in the area... n that's that
Since the clay bros fort hill has been a better coached team than everyone they lined up against for the most part... regardless of where them kids came from... that perryville double pass was a horrible call tho..
At least you finally admit that as a FH grad you are unable to explain what pride in where your dad played has to do with what district you live in.
Even in trying to make it simple, you were still unable to say how the two are related.
Please, do all FH grads a favor and stop reinforcing the stereotype that FH grads cant explain stuff.
Just admit that there is no relation to the district discussion and pride in where daddy played, instead of constantly failing in your attempt to defend a fellow Sentinel Justice Warrior.
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Where a kid lives or who's dad played for FH or Alco doesn't matter guys. Y'all are talking in circles here about an issue that's older than Coach Brian and I. Said it a few months back - geo isn't a factor anymore. Plenty of kids live in one district and go to school in another. Even kids who live in WV go to a Cumberland school sometimes. I'm an Alco guy and the Robinettes all lived in South End. My dad played at FH and I played at Alco.
Now there's obvious appeal to playing at FH right now because they're a very well run program from top to bottom, despite Coach Appel not actively promoting the kids to college coaches, although that's a Cumberland thing that's gone on for decades at both schools, so nothing new there.
Point is, and I think Lags touched on this, you can be an individual on a lesser team like Alco, etc. or you can be part of a great team and organization like FH has been now for years. If I had a kid that I thought at some point had potential to play in college, if that were his goal, it'd be hard to not want him to go to FH. Even if your kid isn't a college prospect, FH is still the crown jewel of area football, so when you're talking about the best chance to have a great experience, then FH is a pretty safe bet.
Since this is another FH/Alco topic that I'm sure we'll all settle today once and for all....
Basically everything he said here is true!
Exactly, Todd. And the one kid that does live out of district? Doesn't matter... my bet is FH would've still been tops in the area whether or not that kid played at Alco or Ridge or everyone's favorite, Paw Paw.
Idk anything about FH pride directly because I didn't play there, but being a Cumberland native I obviously have friends and some family members who did, so I understand to a degree. Everyone's position here is different though. It wasn't my old man's priority that I play at FH, so he and my mom didn't buy land and build their house based on that. Maybe some people do, I don't know. And for the people who do live in Alco territory but played for Charlie and want their kid to play at FH, then sending them there isn't illegal. In fact, the way FH is playing lately it's probably a good idea to send your kid there.
How hard is all of this to really understand?
There are kids in different states that play here. I could care less where any of them play, or even if they play.
I'm just trying to get how pride got to be part of an answer to the question of how many of FH's players live in FH district.
100% agree, Red... the principals have that option. Alco needed someone years ago, so they brought in Preaskorn and that turned out alright. Not great, but he did bring us another state title and we got a couple decent wins over you guys. It's obviously gone south since then.
If you ask me, Alco is going to be at a crossroads again after this season if we don't get more wins. Heidi Laupert and others will have to make a decision about Bryan Hansel. As much as I love the guy, you can't ignore the bottom line. Longshot bet here that if we don't produce this year, we'll look to try and get the band back together by bringing in Randy Stewart to run the show.
Actually, I'm still trying to figure out where 'pride' fits in to '2 to 3 deep' benches at a 1A public school from Freshman, JV and varsity; wherein, surely you could spend 4 years and never start. How many young men are figuratively 'tackling dummies' for those who actually play.
Nothing could be more glaring than homecoming. It is supposed to be the culmination of the traditional yearly experience. It is now like taking your son out to see the prison and waxing on about how one's grandfather used to work at the factory that once was there.
It is not envy that mocks fake tradition. It is the hypocrisy of mocking local schools who do not want to play FH anymore. FH is a great program for whom? The admin, coach or the oldsters who used to play the game. The question for a high school football program is not what is right about a string of championships or virtually never losing games.... The question is what the hell is right about it. Who the hell are we playing? Who the hell isn't playing?
I completely agree with you and red. I’ve said it since Brian was hired that he wasn’t a good coach. His first 2 years he just had karson making him look good. Taking away the homecoming game each year. There is no way allegany should be losing the games they’re losing year after year. I know the numbers are down but there is still good talent left at alco and at some point the question needs to start being asked why Brian isn’t getting the results.
On a side note, you guys called for preskorns head because he couldn’t get past FH but very rarely didn’t he lose to the likes of ridge, southern, or boonesboro.
Because you didnt graduate from FH, you'll just never understand how much pride there is in sitting the bench and being tackling dummies. Its something Allegany grads couldn't be expected to grasp. Only those that played at FH know what it's like to be proud to be a dummy.
I don't know if I would use those exact terms but I have two sons who are VMI graduates. Every single VMI student goes through the 'Rat' line that culminates with an arduous 'breakout' to become a Cadet. Everyone is the first team. On top of that there is the 'honor code' - lie once and you are drummed out. That is a tradition. Everyone participates everyday. Everyone struggles and succeeds equally. When they get their diplomas they earned it. They are an individually elite person, not just part of a group.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't expect high school to be the same. What I would hope for our young men... and young ladies in their sports... is an equal experience to succeed or fail.
Schedule challenging games and get all the young men on the field to win or lose. Playoffs be damned. If we are not doing that.... we fail them. They don't fail.
We fail them when we schedule teams to beat to death or we run seniors on the field at the last minute to say they actually got in the game. We fail them when we have a meltdown after losing a single game in years. We fail them when we publicly discuss student's grades in a program where most games are a walkover. Yes... we do fail them.
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My position on Hansel is I guess disappointment so far, because he's a friend and a really good guy. He was a great player and leader for Alco, then was a good D2 player in college. That combo, among other things like his age, energy, loyalty, etc. made me and some of my Alco buddies feel that Bryan would be a great head coach for us. Plus we all knew that Bauer never wanted the head job. We all wanted Bauer to remain on staff though, which he did.
The same group of us had all felt that Preaskorn had run his course and kinda hit a wall. He had a good run, and honestly, I hope I'm not out of place here, but he had some things in his personal life that maybe he needed to handle that could've been impacting his job. Not my business, just what it seemed like at the time.
Back to Hansel - he did have two good years to start with, which gave us some hope. It's clearly fallen off since then for a few reasons, like program enrollment dropping and last year he was down an assistant coach on varsity, whereas FH is loaded with coaches.
Anyone have thoughts on who the next head guy could or should be if Hansel is done after this year? Like I said I hope that isn't the case because he's a really good dude, all about the kids, great leader. But when you look at it objectively, another bad season tells us we need to at least consider a change.
Randy Stewart is the best option in my opinion. He’s a great friend of mine so I’m biased. We love having him over here but he’s underused. He has a ton of value. The knowledge and experience are there. Also he is a great communicator. I believe he is the guy that can bring kids out at Allegany again. I would hate to lose him but he is better than what is currently doing.
Preaskorn never seemed the same after getting his state title and then going to Iraq.
Whoever becomes the next coach I hope the first thing they do is burn the wing-T playbook. When you dont have the players and athletes to compete, you find an offense/defense that allows you to find an advantage somehow.
That's literally what Refosco did by coming in and changing to the wing-T. It allowed Allegany to pull closer to FH and even beat them when they shouldn't have. That brought energy to the program and it quickly expanded to where in the 80s you had the first time in the history of the rivalry since the early years where you could say Allegany had the better program.
I'm not discounting Refosco's other abilities as a coach, but I think it was the change in philosophy that jumpstarted Alco in the 70s.
And here we are almost half a century later running the same plays. I think another change is due in that regard.
I wish it were that simple. If you sat in the stands as I did and watched Robinette shred Dunbar, then I think the Wing T is not dead. You need players and depth. Take 10% of the average FH players and put them on Alco and we would not even have this conversation.
Ugh who was the last player before or after Robinette to run 250 yards against Dunbar.... Ugh, nobody. Robinette, I think ran about 254... or was it 245...... whatever.
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Just my opinion. Hansel is not going anywhere. The problem with Alco right now is the lower levels. The feeder programs are loosing way to many kids and you just don't get them back when they get to high school. Allegany has one full feeder program in pee wee in the Hunters and probably 65% of the Eagles (just guessing). Not sure how many kids from Alco play for the saints but I don't think it is many if any. Braddock D1 hasn't beaten Washington in probably 20 years or so and the last two years of Braddock football I think they may have won 1 game.
Hey.... I'm with you. Robinette's team was the last glory moment... it just happened to be against Dunbar. Wish I had a CD of the game. It was like going home again.... one can do it.... just not forever.
Sadly, too many memories are bad. I will never forget driving down Columbia Street and seeing the house I was raised in torn down. It's over folks.
We have our memories. Will anybody from FH drag half the D-line of Dunbar 10 yards down the field? I rest my case. It is not how many sit on the bench.
You’re right in that the wing-T isn’t dead, what is dead however is the allegany defense. To me it’s clear that Brian has the F it let’s try and outscore you mentality. When they had Robinette that was a good option. If a coaching change does happen, find someone with a defensive mind set.
Yeah, I'd say that was more Robinette than the wing T.
And that same year after FH shut down the Allegany wing-T in Homecoming, Allegany switched to the Wildcat and was a few inches from winning.
A lot of people from Cumberland get caught up on the wing-T trap, but you can run a trap block out of any offense.
To me the wing T is easy to defense. FH missed the opportunity the last 2 years to run the i formation as the main offense. They got in it a few times and it looked unstoppable. They could have ran play action out of the i all day.
This is an interesting and complex topic. With sports being such a huge part of our society now it has changed the landscape of high school athletics. Parents and their kids want be a part of a winning program. Years ago most kids just played in their district and families rarely moved to play ball somewhere else.
That is no longer the case and it happens not only here but everywhere. Some examples are Martinsburg and Bridgeport in WV high school football.. It's common knowledge that many players drive past schools in their district to play for the better programs.
It has happened here too and is a result of a school having a great tradition, a great staff and a school that puts a lot of energy into a particular sport. Fort Hill has all of that going for them in football and kids want to play there. Have kids moved to play football at FH?...of course. I am not saying FH recruits, they don't have to. If you build it they will come.
I personally don't agree with this mentality for many reasons but to each their own. I think one result we see from this is that those schools become powerhouses in their area and then they really have no local competition (see all of the above named schools and how they dismantle local teams).
Rivalries are no longer rivalries and after a bit of time some of the other schools kids began to lose interest and opt for other sports. At one time I was in agreement that local teams should play each other but in this day and age I think it is very sports specific.
If FH had a largely local schedule in football nobody in this area could challenge them to a close, competitive game. Maybe Keyser every 5-6 years but that would be it. Alco kept it close for a bit primarily because of the Robinette's (who lived in the Frankfort district, moved to the FH district but played at Alco).
I think it is up to the coach at each respective school in each sport to build a competitive schedule for his team. Take notice of the word "competitive". I think looking at enrollment of your competition in this day and age is not always an indicator of the type of schools you should be playing.
FH for example can play much larger schools due to how good their football program is. I see good reason for them to keep Morgantown and some of the other larger schools on their schedule because it provides some great games for them.
This conversation doesn't even touch the topic of "travel" sports and the potential impact it could have on certain sports in the future. It won't touch football but at some point will kids stop playing certain high school sports and opt to play travel instead?
That is no longer the case and it happens not only here but everywhere. Some examples are Martinsburg and Bridgeport in WV high school football.. It's common knowledge that many players drive past schools in their district to play for the better programs.
It has happened here too and is a result of a school having a great tradition, a great staff and a school that puts a lot of energy into a particular sport. Fort Hill has all of that going for them in football and kids want to play there. Have kids moved to play football at FH?...of course. I am not saying FH recruits, they don't have to. If you build it they will come.
I personally don't agree with this mentality for many reasons but to each their own. I think one result we see from this is that those schools become powerhouses in their area and then they really have no local competition (see all of the above named schools and how they dismantle local teams).
Rivalries are no longer rivalries and after a bit of time some of the other schools kids began to lose interest and opt for other sports. At one time I was in agreement that local teams should play each other but in this day and age I think it is very sports specific.
If FH had a largely local schedule in football nobody in this area could challenge them to a close, competitive game. Maybe Keyser every 5-6 years but that would be it. Alco kept it close for a bit primarily because of the Robinette's (who lived in the Frankfort district, moved to the FH district but played at Alco).
I think it is up to the coach at each respective school in each sport to build a competitive schedule for his team. Take notice of the word "competitive". I think looking at enrollment of your competition in this day and age is not always an indicator of the type of schools you should be playing.
FH for example can play much larger schools due to how good their football program is. I see good reason for them to keep Morgantown and some of the other larger schools on their schedule because it provides some great games for them.
This conversation doesn't even touch the topic of "travel" sports and the potential impact it could have on certain sports in the future. It won't touch football but at some point will kids stop playing certain high school sports and opt to play travel instead?
Your point is well taken when applied to a team like FH who knows how to defend the Wing-T. Let's face it, you and I agree on more than we disagree.
My point about FH is that true glory comes from how many Dunbar defenders you dragged down the field not how many wins your school has. Any parent that allows their son to merely belong when they can actually play is.... well, words fail me.
I had the opportunity to put both of my boys in a sports scholarship program and I pushed them to VMI. Best decision of my life and theirs. They were legacy VMI.
Hansel is a roh roh guy, he gets pumped up he gets excited about what he is doing, he puts time into it. He is a great cheerleader, but obviously not a good coach. The assistants aren’t good either. This year they have a good team with size, speed, quickness and power. This should be Alleganys year. If he can’t have a great year this year with the team he has then......
