Have -->ANY<-- area teams thought of joining the EPAC?

[bigsavage]

I emphasis ANY b/c this is not just about one area team as I'm sure a specific team's followers will make it out to be. But my question is have ANY area teams, that includes every area team, thought about joining the Eastern Panhandle Athletic Conference? I can't imagine the threat or risk of losing one game to Martinsburg would out weigh the reward from a financial and logistical standpoint.. We wouldn't have to hear the schedule makers crying every year about how hard it is to find someone to play. The Eastern Panhandle is our next door neighbor so travel and the cost associated with it wouldn't be an issue. And think of the gate the new and renewed rivalries would bring, enabled by the close proximity and fan support of the EPAC schools. And lets face it every other team in the Eastern Panhandle gets thumped by Martinsburg but they don't jump ship and they continue to play them. In recent years I think certain area teams would have been very competitive. The "possibility" of losing 1 game to Martinsburg shouldn't make or break a season or outweigh all the benefits of joining the conference that's if, bridges haven't been burned and the EPAC would have you... Outside of Martinsburg and very very seldom Musselman the rest of the conference would be almost guarnteed wins for lets say FH, Alco, and Keyser... If guaranteed wins is what you're looking for... You could even divide into a East/West division like the SEC.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Those teams are positioned geographically these days to pick up schools in closer proximity in both Maryland, Virginia and even Pennslvania. Look at their schedules now, they are loaded with schools closer to them than the Cumberland schools. Honestly, I'm not so sure they'd even be interested in driving to Cumberland these days, especially when in the case of every school but Martinsburg, it is basically a guaranteed loss if playing Fort Hill. I submit that the Eastern Panhandle has drifted away from Cumberland these days, too many new options in their own backyard, I don't think they would have much interest in traveling to Cumberland in every sport, it's more than just football. Everybody talks about FH leaving the CVAL because of Martinsburg, but honestly, I'm sure the rest of the CVAL was happy to see Fort Hill disappear from the schedule.

 

[TDHelmick]

Cumberland schools tried to get into that set up discussion several times in the recent past. That would be a dream come true. Although the EPAC is basically AAA schools in Berkeley and Jefferson County which have an agreement to play each other long before they stuck a name on the set up. Kind of like Allegany County forming a league except we only have 3 schools here. There is no name for it, but the 3 schools are mandated to play in all sports. I don't know why maxpreps includes Hampshire in this EPAC format.

The main question you need to be asking about this possibility is to the EPAC people themselves. Ask them about Allegany, FH and Keyser joining and you will get your reply. Which is no thanks mostly because of the second BIG question...is this for all sports or just football? Because it is not in the budget to send softball,volleyball, baseball, hoops, etc an hour and a half away for road games. The answer I was given was yes it needs to be for all sports. The WV schools didn't like this travel situation either. And the AMAC believe it or not is a sound financial local situation, it's just the football side wasn't good enough for teams that struggle competing in football. I know that answer sucks and some people just don't get it because they don't work the check book. But money plays the main factor in these decisions. There is more to this equation then just filling a football schedule although I wish it were that easy.

Actually, the grand idea about 4 or so years ago was to form a league that combines this current EPAC with the Winchester schools. They really made a huge push for this but it fell through. FH tried to get into that discussion but never really was seen as an option. The Winchester schools didn't bite on the idea and it fell through. This was a push that was set forth by Martinsburg too because of their football scheduling problems not too much unlike what Alco and FH deal with...and now Keyser to a large extent.

But yea, if that league option was given to Allegany County and Keyser for just football everyone would jump on it I'm pretty positive. Playing Martinsburg in football had zero to do with any potential decision. In fact, I have said on here many times...if Hedgesville, Musselman, Jefferson, Washington, etc. would put Cumberland schools on the football schedule then I can assure you Martinsburg would be added. The reply I always get is that what does playing those other WV schools have to do with Alco, FH and Keyser just playing Martinsburg in football. The answer is everything.

 

[bigsavage]

Cumberland schools tried to get into that set up discussion several times in the recent past. That would be a dream come true. Although the EPAC is basically AAA schools in Berkeley and Jefferson County which have an agreement to play each other long before they stuck a name on the set up. Kind of like Allegany County forming a league except we only have 3 schools here. There is no name for it, but the 3 schools are mandated to play in all sports. I don't know why maxpreps includes Hampshire in this EPAC format.

The main question you need to be asking about this possibility is to the EPAC people themselves. Ask them about Allegany, FH and Keyser joining and you will get your reply. Which is no thanks mostly because of the second BIG question...is this for all sports or just football? Because it is not in the budget to send softball,volleyball, baseball, hoops, etc an hour and a half away for road games. The answer I was given was yes it needs to be for all sports. The WV schools didn't like this travel situation either. And the AMAC believe it or not is a sound financial local situation, it's just the football side wasn't good enough for teams that struggle competing in football. I know that answer sucks and some people just don't get it because they don't work the check book. But money plays the main factor in these decisions. There is more to this equation then just filling a football schedule although I wish it were that easy.

Actually, the grand idea about 4 or so years ago was to form a league that combines this current EPAC with the Winchester schools. They really made a huge push for this but it fell through. FH tried to get into that discussion but never really was seen as an option. The Winchester schools didn't bite on the idea and it fell through. This was a push that was set forth by Martinsburg too because of their football scheduling problems not too much unlike what Alco and FH deal with...and now Keyser to a large extent.

But yea, if that league option was given to Allegany County and Keyser for just football everyone would jump on it I'm pretty positive. Playing Martinsburg in football had zero to do with any potential decision. In fact, I have said on here many times...if Hedgesville, Musselman, Jefferson, Washington, etc. would put Cumberland schools on the football schedule then I can assure you Martinsburg would be added. The reply I always get is that what does playing those other WV schools have to do with Alco, FH and Keyser just playing Martinsburg in football. The answer is everything.

Thanks for both replies.. TDHelmick I'm not trying to be combative and I'm not saying I don't believe you, but not wanting to travel to Cumberland for baseball or softball doesn't make much sense. Especially when I look at Martinsburg's baseball and softball schedules and see who they played. Phillip Barbour 160 miles away, East Hardy 66, miles away, Hampshire 65 miles away, Preston County 154 miles away and Keyser 100 miles away and that's the softball schedule according to maxprep.. So you mean to tell me they'll drive an hr to 2 hrs. past Cumberland to play a softball game but won't travel to Cumberland because of travel expenses??? That doesn't make sense... In baseball they played University which is located in Morgantown and traveled to Myrtle Beach for the R.J. Reynolds Classic. They played Hampshire, Moorfield (80 miles away) and Greenbrier East. But they can't come to Cumberland?

 

[bigsavage]

TDHelmick Maybe I misread your comment are you saying its not in FH's budget or in EPAC's budget? I noticed FH played Hedgesville which is an EPAC school both in baseball and softball. Baseball @ Hedgesville, so i'm even more confused. Either way it seems like these games are being played in other sports at destinations further than Cumberland. And FH is playing these schools regardless. According to maxpreps FH played Petersburg and Brunswick in Volleyball which is just is far. FH in basketball played University, Hedgesville(EPAC SCHOOL), where in the budget are they finding the money for that?

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

I think we can keep this one civil, without all the extras, let try. This is good discussion.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

I think the issue is that in these other sports many of these far away games you mention are "one offs," they are not a guaranteed, you absolutely have to schedule these games commitment. Everybody enjoys the variety these "one offs" can bring to a schedule, but Fort Hill playing Hedgesville in a softball game is a lot different than Fort Hill traveling to every Eastern Panhandle School for every sport every year guaranteed. I mean it used to be done but I guess is no longer feasible. Also, in some cases, and this has always been one of Frankfort's argumentS, whether you agree with it or not, these WV schools like to branch out and get a taste of other WV teams not local to them because it's a gauge of what they can expect come playoff time. I mean I don't want to sidetrack this discussion into a Frankfort discussion but they have argued, right or wrong, that a girls basketball game for them against Lincoln let's say, is more advantageous than a game against Allegany or Fort Hill. Lincoln looms down the road and is a potential playoff roadblock, the Cumberland schools are not. Again, I'm using this as examples, I don't want to sidetrack the discussion.

 

[bigsavage]

I think we can keep this one civil, without all the extras, let try. This is good discussion.

Agreed!

 

[bigsavage]

I think the issue is that in these other sports many of these far away games you mention are "one offs," they are not a guaranteed, you absolutely have to schedule these games commitment. Everybody enjoys the variety these "one offs" can bring to a schedule, but Fort Hill playing Hedgesville in a softball game is a lot different than Fort Hill traveling to every Eastern Panhandle School for every sport every year guaranteed. I mean it used to be done but I guess is no longer feasible. Also, in some cases, and this has always been one of Frankfort's argument whether you agree with it or not, these WV schools like to branch out and get a taste of other WV teams not local to them because it's a gauge of what they can expect come playoff time. I mean I don't want to sidetrack this discussion into a Frankfort discussion but they have argued, right or wrong, that a girls basketball game for them against Lincoln let's say, is more advantageous than a game against Allegany or Fort Hill. Lincoln looms down the road and is a potential roadblock, the Cumberland school are not. Again, I'm using this as examples, I don't want to sidetrack the discussion.

Good valid points... But I think the $$$ you would make from lets say a Martinsburg v. FH game would more than off set the cost of taking a county bus on a road trip to Martinsburg for a baseball or softball game. And remember you're not playing all road games... And it already seems that these "one offs" are being played anyway.. I just get the impression that area teams are cutting off their nose to spite their face...

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Don't get me wrong, I loved the old CVAL days, I loved all those familiar road trips. There was always great atmosphere at all the venues, and it was such a great Interstate league. That being said, I also have thoroughly enjoyed the great variety of teams and venues caused by Fort Hill having to look outside of the CVAL for football games. All those Central Pennsylvania games were great, Pittsburgh schools were interesting, etc...
Let's be honest about one other thing, I don't think that Fort Hill for example would be very competitive in many sports with those teams now. There is a big difference for example playing Northern and Southern back to back in Basketball and plating say "The Ville" (Hedgesville) and Martinsburg back to back. Big difference, in football, Big Red is well equipped, but it would be tough for other sports. My goodness, think baseball, in the past, Fort Hill has its hands free with local teams let alone Jefferson. Non football sports create that problem in addition to travel expense.

 

[bigsavage]

Don't get me wrong, I loved the old CVAL days, I loved all those familiar road trips. There was always great atmosphere at all the venues, and it was such a great Interstate league. That being said, I also have thoroughly enjoyed the great variety of teams and venues caused by Fort Hill having to look outside of the CVAL for football games. All those Central Pennsylvania games were great, Pittsburgh schools were interesting, etc...
Let's be honest about one other thing, I don't think that Fort Hill for example would be very competitive in many sports with those teams now. There is a big difference for example playing Northern and Southern back to back in Basketball and plating say "The Ville" (Hedgesville) and Martinsburg back to back. Big difference, in football, Big Red is well equipped, but it would be tough for other sports. My goodness, think baseball, in the past, Fort Hill has its hands free with local teams let alone Jefferson. Non football sports create that problem in addition to travel expense.

I don't know I don't think you're giving this area enough credit.. Allegany most certainly could be competitive in Basketball. Wv is not Maryland in basketball and Allegany does pretty good in Md. playoffs against downstate teams. I don't follow much girls sports but I think this area is pretty good in Softball and Volleyball. Baseball you're right, but not many teams do compete with Jefferson, and they're just one game. Besides whats the difference between losing to Jefferson or losing to Southern? I too like variety but I miss old long standing rivalries even more.. It just seems like a logistical nightmare trying to fill a schedule every year

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Forgive me for being Fort Hill and Football, Basketball, and Baseball centric in my thinking. Allegany for example would be very competitive in Basketball. Other local schools could be competitive in some sports agreed, but in general, I think it is a mismatch.

 

[bigsavage]

Forgive me for being Fort Hill and Football, Basketball, and Baseball centric in my thinking. Allegany for example would be very competitive in Basketball. Other local schools could be competitive in some sports agreed, but in general, I think it is a mismatch.

The only real mismatch I see is in Jefferson baseball... But I think area teams could compete in Softball, Volleyball and Basketball to some extent. With anything you're going to have your juggernauts. Jefferson in Baseball, Fort Hill and Martinsburg in Football, Hedgesville/allegany/Martinsburg in basketball. I think the problem is in thinking you have to dominate in every sport every single year. With life everything is cyclical

 

[TDHelmick]

None of this trying to form a league has anything to do with competition or mismatches...about who could compete in football or basketball or baseball, etc. It's strictly about travel expense. There are 14 sports for boys and girls in the AMAC (not counting football, wrestling and bowling). To play say 4-6 road games in each sport an hour and a half away would add up to about 50-60 road trips at a 1.5 hour distance. And that doesn't count the number of non-conference games you still are picking up. As a business person from a Cumberland stand point, it doesn't make sense to let guaranteed games with Frankfort, Northern, Southern, Hampshire and Keyser get traded in for games predominately in the Martinsburg area.

That formula won't work with any AD or county admin. I realize there are non-conference opponents on every sport that can take your team 2 hours away, but that's not the same as playing a guaranteed 4-6 road games for every sport at that traveling distance.

To make this simple I can say that if there is any way this type of league can be for football only, I am positive that Alco, FH, Keyser and even Mountain Ridge would be all in...no question about it. I would even say these local schools would be extremely interested and aggressive in trying to make it happen. I can speak for FH and we did try to get into that scenario with the Winchester schools included. But again, that scenario tried to include all sports.

The AMAC is a perfect situation...except for football obviously. The AMAC originally was formed strictly for football, that's the irony. It is why Alco and FH left the CVAL in football.

 

[TDHelmick]

None of this trying to form a league has anything to do with competition...about who could compete in football or basketball or baseball, etc. It's strictly about travel expense. There are 14 sports for boys and girls in the AMAC (not counting football and wrestling). To play say 4-6 road games in each sport an hour and a half away would add up to about 50-60 road trips at a 1.5 hour distance. And that doesn't count the number of non-conference games you still are picking up.

That formula won't work with any AD or county admin in Maryland or West Virginia. I realize there are non-conference opponents on every sport that can take your team 2 hours away, but that's not the same as playing a guaranteed 4-6 road games for every sport at that traveling distance.

To make this simple I can say that if there is any way this type of league can be for football only, I am positive that Alco, FH, Keyser and even Mountain Ridge would be all in...no question about it. I would even say these local schools would be extremely interested and aggressive in trying to make it happen. I can speak for FH and we did try to get into that scenario with the Winchester schools included. But again, that scenario included all sports and neither FH nor the WV schools had any interest in sending all their schools to Cumberland multiple times and vice-versa. The AMAC is a perfect situation...except for football obviously. The AMAC originally was formed strictly for football, that's the irony. It is why Alco and FH left the CVAL in football.

 

[bigsavage]

None of this trying to form a league has anything to do with competition or mismatches...about who could compete in football or basketball or baseball, etc. It's strictly about travel expense. There are 14 sports for boys and girls in the AMAC (not counting football and wrestling). To play say 4-6 road games in each sport an hour and a half away would add up to about 50-60 road trips at a 1.5 hour distance. And that doesn't count the number of non-conference games you still are picking up.

That formula won't work with any AD or county admin in Maryland or West Virginia. I realize there are non-conference opponents on every sport that can take your team 2 hours away, but that's not the same as playing a guaranteed 4-6 road games for every sport at that traveling distance.

To make this simple I can say that if there is any way this type of league can be for football only, I am positive that Alco, FH, Keyser and even Mountain Ridge would be all in...no question about it. I would even say these local schools would be extremely interested and aggressive in trying to make it happen. I can speak for FH and we did try to get into that scenario with the Winchester schools included. But again, that scenario tried to include all sports and neither FH nor the WV schools had any interest in sending all their schools that far multiple times.

The AMAC is a perfect situation...except for football obviously. The AMAC originally was formed strictly for football, that's the irony. It is why Alco and FH left the CVAL in football.

Fair enough... Let me ask this, was there no room for compromise? Let's say the major sports, football, basketball, baseball, enter into an agreement with the EPAC and leave the rest of the sports in the AMAC?? Surely both sides understand the economic impact it would have to require all sports to join the EPAC with the travel involved.. It seems like both sides are pretty rigid and unwilling to compromise and missing out on a lost opportunity.

 

[TDHelmick]

Fair enough... Let me ask this, was there no room for compromise? Let's say the major sports, football, basketball, baseball, enter into an agreement with the EPAC and leave the rest of the sports in the AMAC?? Surely both sides understand the economic impact it would have to require all sports to join the EPAC with the travel involved.. It seems like both sides are pretty rigid and unwilling to compromise and missing out on a lost opportunity.

That's definitely a valid question. Sadly, I have found that adult hang ups and selfishness enter into this equation too often when it's supposed to be for the kids. In your scenario what are the other AMAC schools going to do if certain teams pull out in just basketball and baseball? They won't like it. My take (question) is why can't we do this for just football? Because there are no leagues for football in this discussion. It makes complete sense because most every school involved in this discussion has some form of difficulty scheduling football games. Keyser is frantically trying to find games every year now.

However, when you talk football only...now you start weighing competition and seeing hang ups. Alco, FH and Keyser don't want to play Martinsburg in football anymore than Jefferson, Washington, Musselman, Hedgesville and Spring Mills wants to play FH in football. It's a vicious circle of looking for the easy way out. I can only speak from a FH standpoint, although I enjoy that this discussion doesn't have to revolve around just FH. But if that league were to be formed...FH is all in including playing Martinsburg.

But like I mentioned, those EPAC schools are all county mandated to play each other whether you give the league a name or not. This is a scenario I envisioned about 4-5 years ago.

NORTH
Fort Hill
Allegany
Mountain Ridge
Keyser
Hampshire
Berkeley Springs (or possibly a Washington County School)

SOUTH
Martinsburg
Hedgesville
Washington
Spring Mills
Jefferson
Musselman

Each team plays five division opponents and then you play 2 or 3 cross over opponents on a rotating basis. But this defines the whole problem and I know you laugh at me like I'm crazy when I tell you this: None of those teams wants to play FH or Martinsburg in football if not required to do so. If they did they would be on the schedule now. It's a problem. But I agree with you bigsavage...just do it already. I just don't see the other schools wanting any part of it because they don't want to be forced to play other teams they don't want to play.

Plus, you have to figure in the WV rule where they are required to play so many AAA level schools. That is a deal buster since no one in my fantasy North Division is at the WV AAA level other than Hampshire...and they won't play FH now.

 

[bigsavage]

That's definitely a valid question. Sadly, I have found that adult hang ups and selfishness enter into this equation too often when it's supposed to be for the kids. In your scenario what are the other AMAC schools going to do if certain teams pull out in just basketball and baseball? They won't like it. My take (question) is why can't we do this for just football? Because there are no leagues for football in this discussion. It makes complete sense because most every school involved in this discussion has some form of difficulty scheduling football games. Keyser is frantically trying to find games every year now.

However, when you talk football only...now you start weighing competition and seeing hang ups. Alco, FH and Keyser don't want to play Martinsburg in football anymore than Jefferson, Washington, Musselman, Hedgesville and Spring Mills wants to play FH in football. It's a vicious circle of looking for the easy way out. I can only speak from a FH standpoint, although I enjoy that this discussion doesn't have to revolve around just FH. But if that league were to be formed...FH is all in including playing Martinsburg.

But like I mentioned, those EPAC schools are all county mandated to play each other whether you give the league a name or not. This is a scenario I envisioned about 4-5 years ago.

NORTH
Fort Hill
Allegany
Mountain Ridge
Keyser
Hampshire
Berkeley Springs (or possibly a Washington County School)

SOUTH
Martinsburg
Hedgesville
Washington
Spring Mills
Jefferson
Musselman

Each team plays five division opponents and then you play 2 or 3 cross over opponents on a rotating basis. But this defines the whole problem and I know you laugh at me like I'm crazy when I tell you this: None of those teams wants to play FH or Martinsburg in football if not required to do so. If they did they would be on the schedule now. It's a problem. But I agree with you bigsavage...just do it already. I just don't see the other schools wanting any part of it because they don't want to be forced to play other teams they don't want to play.

Plus, you have to figure in the WV rule where they are required to play so many AAA level schools. That is a deal buster since no one in my fantasy North Division is at the WV AAA level.

I like your idea and even thought of the same thing with the rotating schedule where teams are not playing the same teams every year... Although I think East /West is a better suited geographical name than North/South. Lol but atleast we agree on something... Maybe one day the powers that be can check their egos in at the door and compromise by coming up with a solution that works for everyone.. It just seems like a no brainer to me.. For these schools to be playing each other especially in the 3 major sports but not so much the other sports due travel expenses.. Now that makes sense...

 

[Waggle Pass]

Article on why Hollidaysburg left the WPIAL, having to do with mostly........travel expenses.



http://highschoolsports.pennlive.co...o-leave-wpial-following-2015-football-season/

 

[ed r forshey]

Under Todd's list of 2 Divisions,
Hampshire would be Out of the WV Playoff Ratings,
as soon as the schedule became official with the WVSSAC.
that's 5 AAs

Hampshire must schedule at least 6 AAA schools out of their 10 games,
just to maintain a spot in the WVSSAC Playoff Ratings ,
which set the WV Playoffs

 

[FHHSAHS]

The only major flaw, if thats the right word, I see with the original argument/debate to joining the EPAC/CVAL...is this. If all but Martinsburg are basically guaranteed wins...how does that solve the issue of scheduling teams that are more competitive? Cause that's the debate, right? a More competitive schedule?

Slaughtering Hedsgeville, Jefferson, Washington every year...and Musselman (4 out of 5 years) isnt really an improvement, outside of a) getting Martinsburg on the schedule and b) having a conference of scheduled games.

Dont get me wrong, for nostalgia sake I would love it. But its not an improvement in schedule strength. If that is, in fact, the focus of the discussion.

 

[bigsavage]

The only major flaw, if thats the right word, I see with the original argument/debate to joining the EPAC/CVAL...is this. If all but Martinsburg are basically guaranteed wins...how does that solve the issue of scheduling teams that are more competitive? Cause that's the debate, right? a More competitive schedule?

Slaughtering Hedsgeville, Jefferson, Washington every year...and Musselman (4 out of 5 years) isnt really an improvement, outside of a) getting Martinsburg on the schedule and b) having a conference of scheduled games.

Dont get me wrong, for nostalgia sake I would love it. But its not an improvement in schedule strength. If that is, in fact, the focus of the discussion.

Nope the focus of this discussion is on joining the EPAC for logistical and financial reasons and how feasible that would be and not on strength of schedules... Strength of schedules was on another thread... But if you're asking about strength of schedule I think it would be more financially advantageous to have Jefferson on your schedule as opposed to say a MATHS or Silver Oak and for the most part you wouldn't be sweating it out wondering if the team is going to show up and if they do, are they going to have enough players and equipment... And although they're guaranteed wins they are a step up...

 

[FHHSAHS]

Okay just wanted to make sure trading cupcake for cupcake wouldnt be an issue. Since you're okay with it, I'll drop that.

Obviously, the best thing that could happen for FH and Alco when it comes to scheduling issues is to join a conference. Whether its an AMAC or EPAC or whatever, I'd be for it.

 

[bigsavage]

Okay just wanted to make sure trading cupcake for cupcake wouldnt be an issue. Since you're okay with it, I'll drop that.

Obviously, the best thing that could happen for FH and Alco when it comes to scheduling issues is to join a conference. Whether its an AMAC or EPAC or whatever, I'd be for it.

Nope just figured if you're going to schedule cupcakes you might as well be fiscally and logistically responsible...

 

[bigsavage]

TDhelmick or anyone else that may know... Has anyone talked about forming something with Morgantown, University, the Fairmont schools and say Keyser?

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

This schools have everything they need in the way of WV schools close by for the most part. There was some talk a few years ago about the possibility of Keyser joining an already existing conference up there (the Big 10). One of the problems is that we need other people way more than they need us.

 

[bigsavage]

Morgantown is an hour away I don't believe they're in a league and have a hard time finding games.. I'm sure they would rather travel to cumberland to play a game than say inwood to play Musselman... But who knows I'm sure we could find all the reasons not to play if no one is really interested in finding solutions.

 

[bigsavage]

I guess maybe I should rephrase my question... Has anyone with sincerity actually reached out to those schools like Morgantown, University, preston county, and the teams in Fairmont?? That would be a nice league...

 

[bigsavage]

I guess it seems easier to sit back and say teams won't play us or they have enough games already.. But then you hear others say everyone is having a hard time finding games... Instead of doing the most logical thing and forming a league with the teams around you...

 

[BoyznBlue]

I guess it seems easier to sit back and say teams won't play us or they have enough games already.. But then you hear others say everyone is having a hard time finding games... Instead of doing the most logical thing and forming a league with the teams around you...

Assuming that joining a league with Morgantown etc. is going to create a more difficult schedule, won't the same problems exist because Boonsboro, Smithburg, etc. will not play that same caliber of teams. So for example, the scenario could happen that whoever loses HC may be out of the playoffs. I think that when the new Alco school building opens it's going to attract players and the rivalry will be more competitive.

 

[ultrawalt]

I guess maybe I should rephrase my question... Has anyone with sincerity actually reached out to those schools like Morgantown, University, preston county, and the teams in Fairmont?? That would be a nice league...

That would be a nice league but there would be problems getting it together from all sides. Of the five WV schools, three of them are WV AAA and apparently they would need six AAA opponents to be playoff eligible and Allegany,Fort Hill, Mountain Ridge and Keyser are all WV AA or equivalent in addition to the Fairmont teams that are AA. So you would need to find another AAA school to go in with Keyser and the Allegany County schools to even up the numbers slightly. The obvious candidate would be Hampshire but would they be willing to do that? If I assume they would be that gives the other three AAA schools three AAA games. That leaves you with a maximum seven game league schedule, which might work for everyone but it leaves the WV AAA schools under pressure to find three more AAA games. One problem from the MD schools perspective could be sharing a league with a 1800 student school in Morgantown,which would be a mid sized MD 4A at least. The seven game schedule would rotate them in and out but that still may be a bridge too far to cross. Another issue could be what concessions the three Maryland schools would be willing to make to the AAA WV schools. While they pick up guaranteed games they may not be willing to join a league out of the goodness of their hearts that still will leave them scrambling. These schools will probably realize the large crowds they would help draw in Cumberland and might want some form of compensation for that and ostensibly the schedule hardship they might endure for their non league games. Would any school in this league be willing to share gate receipts with the other if that's what was required, and should they? Fort Hill for example would need to find three games on varying weeks and with the league schedule would probably be needing to schedule teams whose way would need to be paid to Cumberland, so would gate sharing make sense to them? This type of league sounds good to an outsider like myself but with the school size differential and schedule requirements the decision makers would need to figure out if that league would be worth the shared sacrifice.

 

[FHHSAHS]

But didnt we try that forming-a-league-with-everyone-around-you thing? The AMAC?

Teams said yes we would LOVE to be in a league, but we dont want this or that and only this sport or that sport. Etc. So..no league. You play...or you dont. Sucks, but I agree with that.

I cant answer your question about the Morgantown area schools, although University had been on the underclass basketball schedules the last few years (at Fort Hill anyway). Although, would it make more sense for Morgantown to travel to fellow AAA school Musselman for a game than to play a AA equivalent (I think) sized Fort Hill or Alco?

Be kind of like comparing if FH had the opportunity to play 1A Havre De Grace during the regular season at 3 hours away or 4A sized Jefferson a little over an hour away. Might as well play the MD team from your class?

And I hear what Boyz is saying too. It's hard to have this discussion simply based on distance and cost...without factoring in the caliber of competition. I dont know that it can be separated out. Not completely anyway. I'm not saying something good might not be worth the extra work to do so, but walt addresses some of the significant logistics to doing so.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

The Morgantown Schools and the Fairmont Schools and Preston and Elkins were in something called the North Central Athletic Conference.

Then the Big 10 Conference also encompassesed Bridgeport and Grafton and a bunch of other schools local to that area and ended up with a bunch of the North Central Teams as well.

 

[bigsavage]

Assuming that joining a league with Morgantown etc. is going to create a more difficult schedule, won't the same problems exist because Boonsboro, Smithburg, etc. will not play that same caliber of teams. So for example, the scenario could happen that whoever loses HC may be out of the playoffs. I think that when the new Alco school building opens it's going to attract players and the rivalry will be more competitive.

Not necessarily... Last year a 1 loss 9 game schedule FH team still managed to out point a 10-0 boonsboro team... Which shows a phenomenon that you can schedule too soft of a schedule.... I guess it can go both ways... I think we're probably all over thinking this a little too much... Which is probably why leagues aren't getting formed

 

[bigsavage]

That would be a nice league but there would be problems getting it together from all sides. Of the five WV schools, three of them are WV AAA and apparently they would need six AAA opponents to be playoff eligible and Allegany,Fort Hill, Mountain Ridge and Keyser are all WV AA or equivalent in addition to the Fairmont teams that are AA. So you would need to find another AAA school to go in with Keyser and the Allegany County schools to even up the numbers slightly. The obvious candidate would be Hampshire but would they be willing to do that? If I assume they would be that gives the other three AAA schools three AAA games. That leaves you with a maximum seven game league schedule, which might work for everyone but it leaves the WV AAA schools under pressure to find three more AAA games. One problem from the MD schools perspective could be sharing a league with a 1800 student school in Morgantown,which would be a mid sized MD 4A at least. The seven game schedule would rotate them in and out but that still may be a bridge too far to cross. Another issue could be what concessions the three Maryland schools would be willing to make to the AAA WV schools. While they pick up guaranteed games they may not be willing to join a league out of the goodness of their hearts that still will leave them scrambling. These schools will probably realize the large crowds they would help draw in Cumberland and might want some form of compensation for that and ostensibly the schedule hardship they might endure for their non league games. Would any school in this league be willing to share gate receipts with the other if that's what was required, and should they? Fort Hill for example would need to find three games on varying weeks and with the league schedule would probably be needing to schedule teams whose way would need to be paid to Cumberland, so would gate sharing make sense to them? This type of league sounds good to an outsider like myself but with the school size differential and schedule requirements the decision makers would need to figure out if that league would be worth the shared sacrifice.

I thought mt ridge would be considered AAA since they're md 2a? Also as far as scheduling and still leaving those AAA schools to find other teams to play... My question is what are they doing now but having to find teams to play? At least joining a league you could have 7 guaranteed games each year instead of having to find all 10 games..... Also what's the difference between playing Martinsburg in the EPAC or Morgantown in a newly formed conference when you don't mind scheduling Sherando a similar sized school?? 1 competitive game where you go in as the under dog is not going to make or break your season. I see the potential money that could be saved and made through the close proximity, large followings and creation of rivalries.. I think we are too focused on the potential downfalls and not focusing on the upside... No one seems to be willing to give up something to gain something...

 

[FHHSAHS]

I thought mt ridge would be considered AAA since they're md 2a?

The smallest AAA school in WV this year is 933 students. Mt Ridge is right around 900. It's a big AA.

 

[bigsavage]

The smallest AAA school in WV this year is 933 students. Mt Ridge is right around 900. It's a big AA.

Well then according to the wvssac numbers if mt ridge has 900 students they would be AAA... Problem solved

http://wvmat.com/statetou/16classes.pdf

 

[bigsavage]

That would make 4 AAA schools in Preston, Morgantown, University, and Mt Ridge leaving only 2 other games for the AAA's to find... That seems alot more easier than trying to find all 6 games each year... So I really don't get the point in saying well it leaves games to find... Finding 2 AAA games is better than having to find all 6 and finding three games to fill out a schedule is alot easier than having to find all 10.. So what am I missing here?

 

[bigsavage]

Hampshire would make 5 but we know that ain't happening

 

[bigsavage]

Wait a minute wouldn't FH be considered AAA under those wv numbers and if you factor in Hampshire that would be 6 AAA teams in a newly formed league??? Throw in Allegany and Keyser and the Fairmont schools and it seems like you got more than enough teams... Point Pleasant is the smallest AAA at 782... What's FH's enrollment #s???

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

They have already classified out of state opponents in WV for the 2016-2017 through 2019-2020 seasons. All Allegany County Schools are considered WV AA equivalents. It is in black and white.