Burning Question (Fort Hill Schedule)

[Seasoned Lettuce]

I want to preface this by saying: 1) Fort Hill' schedule last year was amazing at producing points, it could not have been better, 2) This year's schedule is tough, really, really tough, but I like it, 3) I'm not second guessing Todd and Todd with the scheduling thing, they do an excellent job, and they have this thing figured out, who could argue with the results?

That being said, sure I know open dates need to match up and yada yada yada, but has anybody else asked the question "If we're playing Sherando, why aren't we just playing Martinsburg again"?

I'm totally 100 percent down for playing Sherando, totally, totally, totally for every reason imaginable. But isn't it basically like playing Martinsburg, without actually playing Martinsburg?

Again, this isn't a complaint thread, I just can't think of Sherando without thinking Martinsburg, maybe it's just in my head, anyone else thinking this?

 

[Waggle Pass]

It really wouldn't benefit Martinsburg to play FH now. In WV, if an AAA team plays an AA school, which FH would be in WV now. the AAA team would get no bonus points for beating a smaller school.

 

[Red Neck]

Beyond the previous statement, Sherando opens the season against Martinsburg. Let's see what happens.

 

[Red Neck]

I want to preface this by saying: 1) Fort Hill' schedule last year was amazing at producing points, it could not have been better, 2) This year's schedule is tough, really, really tough, but I like it, 3) I'm not second guessing Todd and Todd with the scheduling thing, they do an excellent job, and they have this thing figured out, who could argue with the results?

That being said, sure I know open dates need to match up and yada yada yada, but has anybody else asked the question "If we're playing Sherando, why aren't we just playing Martinsburg again"?

I'm totally 100 percent down for playing Sherando, totally, totally, totally for every reason imaginable. But isn't it basically like playing Martinsburg, without actually playing Martinsburg?

Again, this isn't a complaint thread, I just can't think of Sherando without thinking Martinsburg, maybe it's just in my head, anyone else thinking this?

Another reason I would like to see FH & Allegany merge. It would open up some really great high school football competition both interstate & intrastate.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

I'm well aware of how the WV system works--I also am well aware that the point system has remained the same over there forever, I'm also well aware that Martinsburg straight up needs games, being faced with a 9 game schedule this year.

I understand what you're saying, but I doubt Martinsburg would say no to Fort Hill. Heck, I've been a guy agreeing with most that the two really don't benefit (strategically at least) from playing each other. But, sometimes there's more to life than "strategery."

I'm not calling on Fort Hill to play Martinsburg, I don't think they have anything to prove by playing the Dogs. But, I also wasn't calling for Fort Hill to play Sherando.

I'm looking forward to Fort Hill playing Sherando, can't wait for it in fact, had fond memories from my first visit there years ago. No complaints here, just saying, IF you're going to play Sherando, I hope Big Red also at least considered playing Martinsburg.

 

[TDHelmick]

Martinsburg is a Maryland Class 4A school.
Sherando is a Maryland Class 3A school.

It's not in Fort Hill's interest to play 4A schools for starters. No 1A school is interested in playing 4A schools. And no disrespect to Sherando, they aren't on Martinsburg's level, no one around these parts is. With that said...
Second, rehash the Maryland regional playoff system set up. It's great to assume FH is the almighty 1A power that should play powerful 4A schools. It's not great to assume other 1A schools competing for the same championships based on a point system, shouldn't have to play those 4A schools.

If the MPSSAA would adopt my playoff scenario for the 1A West where you play a 9 week regular season schedule and then take everyone in the playoffs starting week 10, FH will definitely consider putting Martinsburg back on the schedule. They may also add Calvert Hall. Had this same conversation with FH coaches last night at F Club picnic. For sure they would love to play Martinsburg and Calvert Hall/DeMatha if everyone made the playoffs. The first goal is winning a state title.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Martinsburg is a Maryland Class 4A school.
Sherando is a Maryland Class 3A school.

It's not in Fort Hill's interest to play 4A schools for starters. No 1A school is interested in playing 4A schools. And no disrespect to Sherando, they aren't on Martinsburg's level, no one around these parts is. With that said...
Second, rehash the Maryland regional playoff system set up. It's great to assume FH is the almighty 1A power that should play powerful 4A schools. It's not great to assume other 1A schools competing for the same championships based on a point system, shouldn't have to play those 4A schools.

If the MPSSAA would adopt my playoff scenario for the 1A West where you play a 9 week regular season schedule and then take everyone in the playoffs starting week 10, FH will definitely consider putting Martinsburg back on the schedule. They may also add Calvert Hall. Had this same conversation with FH coaches last night at F Club picnic. For sure they would love to play Martinsburg and Calvert Hall/DeMatha if everyone made the playoffs. The first goal is winning a state title.

Todd, while I agree in principle with everything you say, I'm having trouble swallowing that the trip to Sherando this year will be any less challenging than agame against dem Dawgs.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

would be interesting to know what those closer to the Sherando and Martinsburg programs think.

 

[TDHelmick]

Well head-to-head Sherando is 0-4 against Martinsburg the last 4 years. They were shut out in 3 of the 4 games and lost by a combined 98-13.

And I must stress again, that is no disrespect to the Sherando program in the least. FH would have found the same fate as would most every school in a 200 mile radius or the entire state of WV other than maybe last year where Capital took over WV Class AAA.

Martinsburg won 4 straight Class AAA state championships from 2010-2013. The Dogs lost just twice in those four years. Can't compare that.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Well head-to-head Sherando is 0-4 against Martinsburg the last 4 years. They were shut out in 3 of the 4 games and lost by a combined 98-13.

And I must stress again, that is no disrespect to the Sherando program in the least. FH would have found the same fate as would most every school in a 200 mile radius or the entire state of WV other than maybe last year where Capital took over WV Class AAA.

Martinsburg won 4 straight Class AAA state championships from 2010-2013. The Dogs lost just twice in those four years. Can't compare that.

So what you're saying is, "they still had a chance"...lol. Come on Todd, don't let these pesky things called statistics and facts get in the way, Inmean Sherando does have an Indian on a horse, that should account for something, at least for the fear factor.

 

[ed r forshey]

It really wouldn't benefit Martinsburg to play FH now. In WV, if an AAA team plays an AA school, which FH would be in WV now. the AAA team would get no bonus points for beating a smaller school.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually if Martinsburg would play and beat Fort Hill, AA in WV, they would get 9 rating points for beating Fort Hill and 1 bonus point for any games that Fort Hill would win against any AA or AAA team when you put that schools enrollment in the WV Rating System.

If Fort Hill would beat the following schools and had played and lost to Martinsburg,
Martinsburg would get bonus points for 8 of the 9 teams that Fort Hill would beat.
Clearfield, PA is AAA in WV
Keyser is AA in WV
Chestnut Ridge, PA is AA in WV
Avalon is AA in WV
South Hagerstown is AAA in WV
Sherando, VA is AAA in WV
Mt Ridge, MD is AAA in WV
Allegany, MD is AA in WV
The only school no bonus point would be given is Siler Oak, MD which is A in WV

 

[eaglesinsider]

Avalon is AA in WV

Why is Avalon considered AA in WV? Avalon has between 170-190 kids 2-12 and between 85-100 in the HS. It's all boys, but still, even if you have an enrollment multiplier that's still 170-200 and the A/AA cutoff in WV is listed as 428.

 

[Red Neck]

Well head-to-head Sherando is 0-4 against Martinsburg the last 4 years. They were shut out in 3 of the 4 games and lost by a combined 98-13.

And I must stress again, that is no disrespect to the Sherando program in the least. FH would have found the same fate as would most every school in a 200 mile radius or the entire state of WV other than maybe last year where Capital took over WV Class AAA.

Martinsburg won 4 straight Class AAA state championships from 2010-2013. The Dogs lost just twice in those four years. Can't compare that.

Todd - Don't be so quick with you praise of Martinsburg. Tuscarora, a relatively new program from Leesburg, easily handled them last year 40-21. Tuscarora lost in the 5A championship.

 

[TDHelmick]

Todd - Don't be so quick with you praise of Martinsburg. Tuscarora, a relatively new program from Leesburg, easily handled them last year 40-21. Tuscarora lost in the 5A championship.

They must have caught Martinsburg on a down year where they lost 2 games. The Dogs could not win their 5th straight title in the process. They are worthy of the praise. Can't run the table every year.

 

[Red Neck]

They must have caught Martinsburg on a down year where they lost 2 games. The Dogs could not win their 5th straight title in the process. They are worthy of the praise. Can't run the table every year.

I agree, but my comment was in response to your statement "...FH would have found the same fate as would most every school in a 200 mile radius or the entire state of WV other than maybe last year where Capital took over WV Class AAA." I saw that game, and the Huskies dominated the Bulldogs beyond what the final score was.

 

[hamspear]

It's true Martinsburg has been better than Sherando in the last four years. Three of those four years they were a state champion caliber team and showed it. Two out of four of those games were decided in the last two minutes , the other two were blowouts. It will be interesting to see what happens this year, Martinsburg is young , and I am hearing the talent that was there the last three years , is not of that caliber. not sure if that is true or not. without a doubt , I would say at this point Martinsburg has more than proven they have been a much better team than Sherando the last four years. This year , Martinsburg is the second game on the schedule, the warriors travel to Louisa the first game. I think that will change things a little for both team with a game under the belt.

 

[hamspear]

Tuscarora didn't catch Martinsburg on a down year, that team was a beast last year. look up tailback Noah Riemers, and you will see what he was about, along with a athletic O line that averaged 300 plus.

 

[TDHelmick]

The OPs statement was about why FH picked up Sherando but not Martinsburg. I answered that. When Martinsburg with 1800 students won 4 straight state titles losing only twice in that span, yea...Class 1A FH has not/was not looking to add the Dogs. That's all.

The biggest problem being a 1A school is depth. An injury or two and the season goes from being a championship contender to not even making the playoffs. Smaller schools have no back ups or rarely guys that can go one way. Numbers do matter big time when you start talking about higher levels of competition. Although obviously some schools have over 2000 students and can never field a team that wins more than 3 games. But once you start talking about teams that consistently win 10 games a year, yes numbers matter big time.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Not to start a war, but Fort Hill has ran off 28 straight wins and won 2 consecutive state championships. Not to mention the many successful years before that and the fact that the cupboard is full for years to come. Nonetheless, let's not bash Frankfort or even say Hampshire for wanting no part of that buzzsaw the way FH wants no part of Martinsburg, and I'm a Fort Hill guy.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

In essence, both Fort Hill and Frankfort play a competitive schedule, but both pick and choose who to avoid. Let's just all admit to and agree on that.

 

[TDHelmick]

Everybody picks and chooses who to avoid in football. Everybody...including Martinsburg.

 

[hamspear]

That's a true statement

 

[bleedred]

OKay, I guess it's time to clear up this Fort Hill Martinsburg debate. This current episode started in 2008. Coach Appel knew that the AMAC was folding as far as football was concerned and needed games for the 2009 season. At that time, I had a lot of flexability in my schedule and took one morning to venture to Martinsburg High school and talked to Greg Reed, the AD. While talking to Mr. Reed, I learned that Martinsburg was more than happy to renew the series with Fort Hill. However, Mr. Reed also disclosed that he was actively attempting to start a league with the local WV schools and the nearby Va schools. Membership would be open to Fort Hill as long as they were willing to participate in all sports, but that's another topic. That league developed in 2011, with the first play occurring in 2012. If you can recall, in 2010 Martinsburg sent Fort Hill a 1 year contract for the game to be played at Martinsburg in 2011. There was not going to be a game in the 2012 season. Martinsburg cited that they needed the home game to have 5 home games for the 2011 season. Fort Hill expected a return trip at the least in 2012. Needles to say, the contract was never signed. (Just for the record, Martinsburg had 6 home games in 2011) Right now, it looks like I'm putting all the blame on the Dogs, but there is more to the story. Like I said, Fort Hill would have had the chance to get into this new league with the Dogs and Steve Lewis, who wanted to leave the AMAC and was actively looking for another league, however, he was interested in a Football League only. Needless to say Fort Hill was snubbed and the Dogs felt that they really didn't need the big red. Shortly after, their league folded just as the AMAC did up here. Now, both teams are scrambling for games and as far as I'm concerned, both school had an active roll in stopping this series.

With all that said, I would love to see this series get renewed. However, Todd still needs to play a schedule that gives his kids a chance to compete in the playoffs. There are too many schools that are trying to get into the playoffs by the easyiest route possible. Without Martinsburg on the schedule, Fort Hill could go 7-3,not lose to another 1A school, and win another Championship. Wouldn't it be a crime for them to loose 4 games and not get in the playoffs when they are the best 1A team in the State. The bottom line is that if they get Martinsburg on their schedule, they can't play the Shernandos, or the Avalons, etc... If the kids get knocked out of the playoffs, it should be done by a Maryland 1A team and no one else.

If the system would change, this discussion could be history.

 

[Red Neck]

Tuscarora didn't catch Martinsburg on a down year, that team was a beast last year. look up tailback Noah Riemers, and you will see what he was about, along with a athletic O line that averaged 300 plus.

Agree 100%! Riemers was Gatorade Player of the Year in Virginia. Mburg was lucky the score wasn't worse, as it could have been, easily. Typical chatter with no backup LOL...

 

[Red Neck]

Not to start a war, but Fort Hill has ran off 28 straight wins and won 2 consecutive state championships. Not to mention the many successful years before that and the fact that the cupboard is full for years to come. Nonetheless, let's not bash Frankfort or even say Hampshire for wanting no part of that buzzsaw the way FH wants no part of Martinsburg, and I'm a Fort Hill guy.

Appreciate your candor and honesty!

 

[ed r forshey]

let's not bash Frankfort or even say Hampshire for wanting no part of that buzzsaw the way FH wants no part of Martinsburg, and I'm a Fort Hill guy.
---------------------------------------------------
The major difference is Frankfort is AA and so is Fort Hill, but Martinsburg is a big AAA were Fort Hill is a middle size AA if in WV.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Fort Hill doesn't play Martinsburg for the same reason that Frankfort doesn't play Fort Hill. They would rather not schedule a likely loss. And that's okay, teams have a right to schedule in order to get themselves to where they need to be. It has worked fine for FH the last two years, so I say play on.

But the Lettuce man is right in his question/assertion. And Puh LEEZ do not try to make it an enrollment 3A/4A excuse.

Sherando only has about 200 students less than Martinsburg...so yeah, they may be 3A MD points vs Martinsburg's 4A MD points. But the argument is invalid to ANYONE who feels that Frankfort should be playing FH. As Franksfort has about 200 students less than FH.

If Fort Hill can use the argument that 200 students just makes too much of a difference, then Frankfort or any other smaller school can too. Be consistent, and call it like it is. FH doesn't want to schedule a likely loss annually by having the Bulldogs on the schedule. Simple.

 

[kkram]

As a Southern fan, I wish we still played Ft Hill, Alco, Mt Ridge, Keyser, but we don't. Truthfully speaking, those schools would benefit in a win, as far as points go, but would get no bonus points because of our lack of other wins. I think it would be great to see all 1A schools play each other in the region, no doubt on who would win most of them, but it would be nice to see.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Yeah, how many students does Walter Johnson have. But it doesn't matter, because they stink.

You guys need to realize you're trying to hoodwink some of the most fervent, devoted Fort Hill Homers there are. We're the kind of guys that would name our dogs Hahn, Lattimer and Himmelwright.

Anyway, we're tired of hearing the enrollment excuse, we get it, we really do, but you don't want to schedule a gsuranteed loss, neither does Frankfort, nothing less, nothing more, lol.

 

[BrianH1974]

Oh brother another year another FH poster who can't believe FH doesn't play Martinsburg anymore. Still stuck in time spinning wheels like most of Cjmberland. LOL. Move on already. It's 1A football around here period. it's been said here a million times that no 1A school in MD wants to play 4A schools. Stop harrasing the schedule makers about it and learn to appreciate 2 titles and the tough schedule for this fall. Adding Martinsburg in place of Sherando makes zero sense. If the reason why needs explain ed then u don't have a clue and will never accept reality about our local situation. This isn't 1975. We r tired of hearing the same FH blabbering. 1000 more students does natter, nothing more nothing less.

FH and Alco shouldn't be playing Frankfort in any sport. Wish they would have stuck to their guns. It's not enjoyable to see FH pound them in football every single year. They never could compete and never will. So why play them yes.

 

[hamspear]

after Fort Hill plays Sherando this year, might be a good time to evaluate if Martinsburg would be a better choice.

 

[bleedred]

It seems that two different threads are arguing the same topic. The bottom line is that it would be great to load up the schedule however, there's this monster called the MPSSAA and they have a system that discourages this from happening. I like the Pa system where the only games that count toward the playoffs are the games they play against teams from their region (Section).

Wouldn't it be great to play 5 or 6 games that determine a playoff spot, and then be able to schedule 4 or 5 games with whoever you would want.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Brian, if you read back through, you'll actually find I'm not saying Fort Hill should play Martinsburg at all, I don't think they should. What I did say, however, is that IF they are playing Sherando, they may as well play Martinsburg. I see Martinsburg and Sherando of the same ilk, I know the Dogs are a notch tougher but for me I think they are on the level. Others disagree, and that's fine.

The second thing I'm trying to convey, and it's not an original thought, is that we FH people need to quit bashing Frankfort for not playing FH when we don't play Martinsburg for the same exact reason.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Interestingly enough, the CalPreps computer algorithm predicts that in 2015 on a Neutral Field Fort Hill would beat Martinsburg 31-28 and Sherando 31-26.

Do I believe this, not neccessarily, but at least from a semi-scientific standpoint the data says that Martinsburg and Sherando are on equal footing.

 

[BrianH1974]

High school sports obviously vary from year to year. But the fact is Sherando is 0-4 against Mburg the last 4 years. That was pointed out already. when either FH or Sherando wins 4 titles in a row we can discuss it. I can say with complete confidence that neither FH or Sherando could win 4 titles in a row at the WV class AAA level. Ever.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Me when I read Brian's posts:

 

[BrianH1974]

FHHSAHS demonstrates his/her intellectual abilities by providing solid information per usual. At least it's not the typical blind homerism we generally receive. Applause!

Does your old man still work at PPG glass too?

im a loyal FH fan but at least half intelligent to know what's what in Class 1A. I will repeat again in case u skipped over it but neither FH or Sherando could win 4 strait WV AAA titles in a row. Even if they played in that league for 200 years. LET'S SCHEDULE MARTINSBURG!

This feels like I'm sitting next to Walt Porter after hes had a snoot full of Black Velvet.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

Walt Porter....love it. But Brian, we're not saying we should schedule Martinsburg.....just that there's not as much separation between Martinsburg and Sherando to just make scheduling Marrinsburg a stretch.

 

[BrianH1974]

For sure I can agree with that on any given year. It would be awesome if Sherando could take out Mburg on labor day weekend this fall. I'll be rooting for them.

BTW seasoned lettuce is the greatest username i have ever seen here. and the pic FHHSAHS posted actually did make me laugh. Im nuts at least I admit it. Can't wait for season to start.

 

[hamspear]

There is a good chance that the Martinsburg - Sherando game week 2 could be one for the ages this year. And NO Fort Hil does not want to play the Martinsburg of the last 4 years. NOW, Martinsburg of the last 4 years is not going to be the case forever and ever and they were much better the last 4 years than they were the 10 before that.. Those teams were pretty special except for maybe last year a little step back. They have a great program , as does Sherando and Fort Hill. I think the coach for Fort hill made a good decision in playing Sherando, a nice step up in competition , with still a opportunity to win. Sherando will need to be on point, to not lose that game. Martinsburg of the last four years would stomp Fort Hill, as they did in several games against the Warriors.. Not even close. to much depth, and to many sub 4.5 guys on the edge with size. Stop one guy and the other three are killing you on the other side of the field. Now, it remains to be seen if Martinsburg is in a decline of the Talent cycle or not. week 2 against Sherando will be a good measuring stick. A down Martinsburg team, is a whole different story. Calling out to play Martinsburg is another step up from playing Sherando at this point, and what good would do for Fort hill to go into Martinsburg and lose by 50. How do you learn from that? Coach for Fort Hill knows what he is doing, you guys should trust his judgement.