Area Football

[beall02]

I haven't been able to watch much area football in the past month, but it once again seems as if Allegany County has a leg up on much of the state when it comes to where their programs are currently, with Fort Hill and Mountain Ridge being the cream of the crop, and Allegany being the next closest in 1A. Frankfort seems to be in a better place than Keyser as of now. Northern has the edge over Southern right now.

Fort Hill has seemed to figure some things out in the past three weeks (especially the past two) and seem to be preparing for a rematch with Mountain Ridge in Annapolis. The only question is... Does anyone else in 1A have anything for these two juggernots? The road to Annapolis will run through Allegany County for the next two weeks, for the second year in a row.

 

[ravemwp]

I haven't been able to watch much area football in the past month, but it once again seems as if Allegany County has a leg up on much of the state when it comes to where their programs are currently, with Fort Hill and Mountain Ridge being the cream of the crop, and Allegany being the next closest in 1A. Frankfort seems to be in a better place than Keyser as of now. Northern has the edge over Southern right now.

Fort Hill has seemed to figure some things out in the past three weeks (especially the past two) and seem to be preparing for a rematch with Mountain Ridge in Annapolis. The only question is... Does anyone else in 1A have anything for these two juggernots? The road to Annapolis will run through Allegany County for the next two weeks, for the second year in a row.

I would think only Joppatowne is capable of beating both FH, and MR in back to back weeks. I don't think they can, but are the only other 1A team I would consider.

 

[Waggle Pass]

I would think only Joppatowne is capable of beating both FH, and MR in back to back weeks. I don't think they can, but are the only other 1A team I would consider.

Joppatowne's only loss was to Perryville.

 

[Dwj21]

Joppatowne's only loss was to Perryville.

Cal Preps has FH beating Perryville 42-3 and beating Joppatowne 42-17 on neutral fields.

I don't think either one will stand a chance at the stadium especially if FH keeps this intensity up from this past game.

 

[ravemwp]

Joppatowne's only loss was to Perryville.

Yes correct, early season. They had 6 common opponents. Joppatowne 6-0. Perryville 3-3. I don't think either can beat FH, and MR in back to back weeks, but if you made me pick someone other, it would be Joppatowne.

---

 

[TDHelmick]

The things we can't know living inside these Allegany County walls are what level of competition teams from other regions maintain. Sure a team in Cecil County or Gettysburg such as New Oxford can put up a 7 or 8 game winning season. But who are the teams they are beating? We don't know so it becomes hard to gauge.

I know I saw Joppatowne come to Greenway last season and get their doors waxed bad. I honestly thought they were not much better than Southern. It was that bad. Could it be the same with Perryville? Can't tell really. Who are they beating? They were undefeated when they came to Greenway in 2011 and as it turned out they were legit.

If people tell me Oakdale is the best team to represent Frederick County right now then I have to say the level of play there has severely diminished. At least for 2022.

It's kind of cool to measure things this way. Between Mtn Ridge and FH getting 2 Cecil County teams this weekend we are about to find out with a true first hand measuring stick. Reasons such as this make the way the MPSSAA has aligned the football playoffs heading into the final 8 actually pretty good. Two teams from each region banging heads with other regions. Now if they could just go back to doing this with 4 classifications then they have it right. There is no need to clutter this scenario with teams who post 1-8 records.

 

[Tony54]

That 2011 game was brutal to watch. I can still see the perryville kid running down one of the clay brothers. Just based on looking at their schedule and scores I’m predicting a running clock in the third quarter

 

[ravemwp]

The things we can't know living inside these Allegany County walls are what level of competition teams from other regions maintain. Sure a team in Cecil County or Gettysburg such as New Oxford can put up a 7 or 8 game winning season. But who are the teams they are beating? We don't know so it becomes hard to gauge.

I know I saw Joppatowne come to Greenway last season and get their doors waxed bad. I honestly thought they were not much better than Southern. It was that bad. Could it be the same with Perryville? Can't tell really. Who are they beating? They were undefeated when they came to Greenway in 2011 and as it turned out they were legit.

If people tell me Oakdale is the best team to represent Frederick County right now then I have to say the level of play there has severely diminished. At least for 2022.

It's kind of cool to measure things this way. Between Mtn Ridge and FH getting 2 Cecil County teams this weekend we are about to find out with a true first hand measuring stick. Reasons such as this make the way the MPSSAA has aligned the football playoffs heading into the final 8 actually pretty good. Two teams from each region banging heads with other regions. Now if they could just go back to doing this with 4 classifications then they have it right. There is no need to clutter this scenario with teams who post 1-8 records.

Scheduling questions. Joppatowne is a Harford County school. Perryville is a Cecil County school. They play each other, plus 6 common opponents. Are they in a multi County league together. I do know their counties connect. If so couldn't Allegany, and Washington counties do the same, or am I way late on this, and it's already been a failed venture.

 

[MCsoccerplex]

Scheduling questions. Joppatowne is a Harford County school. Perryville is a Cecil County school. They play each other, plus 6 common opponents. Are they in a multi County league together. I do know their counties connect. If so couldn't Allegany, and Washington counties do the same, or am I way late on this, and it's already been a failed venture.

The Cumberland Valley Athletic League (CVAL) disbanded several years ago. If you are not aware, it was made up of Allegany, Fort Hill, North Hagerstown, South Hagerstown, Hedgesville, and Martinsburg.

To think Washington County schools want to create a league with Allegany County Schools is a good idea, but it won’t happen.

Boonsboro and Smithsburg did play Allegany this year.

There are multiple schools in the backyards of Washington County and Berkley County (WV) schools, so there is no need for those schools to travel to Allegany County on a regular basis to lose most of the time. The only consistent exception to losing would be Martinsburg.

 

[TDHelmick]

Scheduling questions. Joppatowne is a Harford County school. Perryville is a Cecil County school. They play each other, plus 6 common opponents. Are they in a multi County league together. I do know their counties connect. If so couldn't Allegany, and Washington counties do the same, or am I way late on this, and it's already been a failed venture.

Those teams are in what's called the Upper Chesapeake Bay Susquehanna Region. The 8 teams are:

Joppatowne, Patterson Mill, Rising Sun, Perryville, Fallston, Bohemia Manor, North East, Havre de Grace

They do all play each other.

We have the same thing here called the WestMAC - which is composed of all Allegany and Garrett County public schools. There are only 5 teams here.

As for Washington County, that schedule undertaking has gone on for nearly two decades. I'm sure Washington County would entertain the idea of a merger to make scheduling easier. But if it involves having to be forced to play Fort Hill they won't discuss it. You will see them on all the other WestMAC schedules but FH is way past their limits according to their coaches. Continued success has its pros and cons. Unfortunately Frederick County has now become the same as Washington County. You can't find a single school willing to play FH.

I have been working schedules for a very long time. None of this is new, except Frederick County. Beating Oakdale the last two years by a combined score of 91-28 did not help matters.

 

[ravemwp]

Some I knew, and some I didn't, thanks for the info guys. I thought all 3 county schools were having trouble getting games. Now I'm understanding it's more of a FH getting games thing.

 

[Tony54]

The things we can't know living inside these Allegany County walls are what level of competition teams from other regions maintain. Sure a team in Cecil County or Gettysburg such as New Oxford can put up a 7 or 8 game winning season. But who are the teams they are beating? We don't know so it becomes hard to gauge.

I know I saw Joppatowne come to Greenway last season and get their doors waxed bad. I honestly thought they were not much better than Southern. It was that bad. Could it be the same with Perryville? Can't tell really. Who are they beating? They were undefeated when they came to Greenway in 2011 and as it turned out they were legit.

If people tell me Oakdale is the best team to represent Frederick County right now then I have to say the level of play there has severely diminished. At least for 2022.

It's kind of cool to measure things this way. Between Mtn Ridge and FH getting 2 Cecil County teams this weekend we are about to find out with a true first hand measuring stick. Reasons such as this make the way the MPSSAA has aligned the football playoffs heading into the final 8 actually pretty good. Two teams from each region banging heads with other regions. Now if they could just go back to doing this with 4 classifications then they have it right. There is no need to clutter this scenario with teams who post 1-8 records.

I don’t see any reason why Fort Hill shouldn’t play Martinsburg. They both have great traditions. In my humble opinion they are not as good as they were a few years ago but even if they are who cares. 1A is so watered down that seeds do not matter much. Most of all. THE STADIUM WOULD BE PACKED!!

 

[LinemenWinGames]

The Cumberland Valley Athletic League (CVAL) disbanded several years ago. If you are not aware, it was made up of Allegany, Fort Hill, North Hagerstown, South Hagerstown, Hedgesville, and Martinsburg.

To think Washington County schools want to create a league with Allegany County Schools is a good idea, but it won’t happen.

Boonsboro and Smithsburg did play Allegany this year.

There are multiple schools in the backyards of Washington County and Berkley County (WV) schools, so there is no need for those schools to travel to Allegany County on a regular basis to lose most of the time. The only consistent exception to losing would be Martinsburg.

South Hagerstown left the CVAL, I believe in 1988 and stopped playing FH until the 2-year series this last decade. North Hagerstown left the CVAL at the same time South did or not long after, but kept playing FH up to 1996. They they dropped FH until the two games over 3 years this past decade (2012, 2014). North was forced by the MPSSAA to play FH in 2014 to honor the contract.

I spoke to the South Hagerstown athletic director in person during the week of the 2016 game and he said at that time he would not be renewing a contract with FH because they would no longer be competitive after that 2016 team.

 

[LHSlancerFAN]

South Hagerstown left the CVAL, I believe in 1988 and stopped playing FH until the 2-year series this last decade. North Hagerstown left the CVAL at the same time South did or not long after, but kept playing FH up to 1996. They they dropped FH until the two games over 3 years this past decade (2012, 2014). North was forced by the MPSSAA to play FH in 2014 to honor the contract.

I spoke to the South Hagerstown athletic director in person during the week of the 2016 game and he said at that time he would not be renewing a contract with FH because they would no longer be competitive after that 2016 team.

And he would be correct about that; however, the South JV team this year was very talented! Boonsboro's only county loss in JV was to South and it was a blowout.

Technically, the Washington County schools are part of the Central Maryland Conference along with Frederick County. The caveat to that is that they play the Frederick County schools in all sports but football and field hockey. Football they said they were not ready to compete on Frederick County's level and no Washington County school sponsors field hockey as of yet. There are a smattering of intercounty games between the two in football (Boonsboro played Brunswick and Catoctin), but not "mandated" games like they are in softball, baseball, basketball, etc.

 

[loco09]

I don’t see any reason why Fort Hill shouldn’t play Martinsburg. They both have great traditions. In my humble opinion they are not as good as they were a few years ago but even if they are who cares. 1A is so watered down that seeds do not matter much. Most of all. THE STADIUM WOULD BE PACKED!!

It's a two way street though, even if FH said they wanted to play Martinsburg what do the Bulldogs gain other than a semi local game with a decent gate. FH is I'm assuming AA in WV so for Martinsburg a win wouldn't gain as many points and a loss would be a big blow and they need x number of AAA games on their schedule. Not saying they'd say no to playing FH but there's two sides of the coin

 

[FHHSAHS]

Good point, Martinsburg has no need to play FH anymore than Oakdale or Frederick needs to.

 

[Tony54]

Good point, Martinsburg has no need to play FH anymore than Oakdale or Frederick needs to.

The reason I said we should play Martinsburg is because Todd stated that Martinsburg would play us.

 

[TDHelmick]

I can only speak for myself, not the school or admins or coaches.
If the only team in the entire state of WV that will entertain playing FH is Martinsburg, then I am not interested. West Virginia can keep playing with themselves.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Obviously this is a personal issue more than anything else, so talking X's and O's about the situation is probably futile...but, logistically, using the same argument lamenting why Washington or Frederick Co schools won't play FH because of the potential loss is no different than FH not playing Martinsburg for the same reason. All teams make the playoffs. It doesn't matter if you lose a game or two. Man up. Right? Right??

Im not sure if feelings got hurt along the way or someone is holding a grudge or whatever the case may be, but personal problems aside, there really is no good reason FH and Martinsburg don't play...especially in this current playoff setup.

If I'm wrong, educate me. Without using the words "school size, enrollment, travel, or money."

 

[TDHelmick]

Obviously this is a personal issue more than anything else, so talking X's and O's about the situation is probably futile...but, logistically, using the same argument lamenting why Washington or Frederick Co schools won't play FH because of the potential loss is no different than FH not playing Martinsburg for the same reason. All teams make the playoffs. It doesn't matter if you lose a game or two. Man up. Right? Right??

Im not sure if feelings got hurt along the way or someone is holding a grudge or whatever the case may be, but personal problems aside, there really is no good reason FH and Martinsburg don't play...especially in this current playoff setup.

If I'm wrong, educate me. Without using the words "school size, enrollment, travel, or money."

I just said I can only speak for myself. So yes, those are my personal feelings. You obviously have your own.

Not sure what the infatuation is with Martinsburg. As if no other schools in WV are worth discussing. Kind of sums it up. But if you want to equate the fact 150 other schools nearby not playing FH is the same as FH not playing Martinsburg, well I do not agree. In fact...

As I told the Martinsburg AD ten years ago, put FH in a Berkeley/Jefferson County rotation to any extent and FH will play any of them including the Dawgs. If you are hell bent on saying those other schools shouldn't matter than I am not on board with your process of filling 3 to 4 holes most every year. I never got in the habit of just sucking it up and taking the short end of the stick repeatedly.

I'm looking over all 1A, 2A and 3A schedules in Maryland and then looking at the one FH just played and your suggesting FH man up? I would suggest getting over the infatuation with Martinsburg. Maybe FH may pick them up, I dunno. But I personally would not until 150 other nearby schools start to man up. Give me two other WV teams and then I'll change my mind. See?

No hard feelings. You ask honest questions and hopefully I gave an honest answer.

 

[FHHSAHS]

I'm not saying FH needs to man up per se. I'm using the logic you impart onto other schools who won't play FH. If Oakdale or Frederick or Walkersville or Middletown or whatever other school should man up and play FH, and not be so concerned about losing, why does that exclude FH from the same line of thinking? If FH loses Old Mill and Oakdale from their schedule, and they are unable to replace those games with competitive games...then "man up" would be appropriate to say, based on the selection left to choose from. From a scheduling standpoint, that is. I don't envy the job of making a schedule when teams don't want to play you, that's got to be a pain in the ass. But if the Dogs would be willing to fill one of those spots for the near future...doesn't sound horrible to me.

As for the infatuation with Martinsburg it's several-fold: that they are, arguably the best public school football program within a two hour radius from FH; That they are one of the very few public schools that has owned FH within recent years, aside from Dunbar; that year in and year out they would give the players and coaches a huge challenge and let them see how they stack up against one of the best programs in the area. If losses really aren't that problematic in this current playoff setup then why not?

Again, whatever personal issues exist I can't speak to. I'm strictly speaking from a black and white, linear perspective...FH has a hard time finding games, FH doesn't want to play teams more than 75 or so miles away, Martinsburg (from what I'm hearing) is open to playing FH on an ongoing basis, so that would be one less spot to fill yearly. The whataboutisms and why other teams don't play FH or why the other panhandle teams won't play FH have nothing to do with this particular topic. If FH could pick up a super competitive game and have one less spot to fill every year, that solves a problem.

As for the 150 other schools within the radius which FH is willing to travel, I would venture to say 10 of them might be competitive. It's not like there is 150 schools in the area that are all competitive. I'm not sure why we want to focus on the 140 games that would be no better than what we have now. I'm kind of lost on that argument.

I appreciate the discussion, no hard feelings at all. But I really don't understand the issue outside of whatever personal problems exist. They play in JV, might as well play in varsity. I look forward to the competitive schedules we've seen FH have the past few years. And if that can happen without Martinsburg, then that's awesome. But there are very few teams in the "local area" to choose from when Frederick County goes silent to the phone calls.

Anyhoo. It will always make for board material either way.

 

[TDHelmick]

The whataboutisms and why other teams don't play FH or why the other panhandle teams won't play FH have nothing to do with this particular topic.

But these things do relate to this particular topic big time.
No thank you. WV can stay in WV. MD will stay in MD.
Asking FH to do year in and year out what no other school will do is a great compliment though.

 

[theprocessworks]

The Cumberland Valley Athletic League (CVAL) disbanded several years ago. If you are not aware, it was made up of Allegany, Fort Hill, North Hagerstown, South Hagerstown, Hedgesville, and Martinsburg.

To think Washington County schools want to create a league with Allegany County Schools is a good idea, but it won’t happen.

Boonsboro and Smithsburg did play Allegany this year.

There are multiple schools in the backyards of Washington County and Berkley County (WV) schools, so there is no need for those schools to travel to Allegany County on a regular basis to lose most of the time. The only consistent exception to losing would be Martinsburg.

and Jefferson

 

[OneRing]

This year FH has already dropped a scrimmage team (for not subbing their players early enough) and a regular season team (for changing the start time of a game by 2 hours), and they are actually going to complain that no one wants to play them?

I guess beggars can be choosers 🤷‍♂️

 

[3rd and goals]

This year FH has already dropped a scrimmage team (for not subbing their players early enough) and a regular season team (for changing the start time of a game by 2 hours), and they are actually going to complain that no one wants to play them?

I guess beggars can be choosers 🤷‍♂️

Old mill was a 2 year contract. The deal was over after this year regardless

 

[Bleedred4life]

It never fails, Onering is as stupid as ever.

 

[K7w5]

I don’t see the logic in making martinsburg responsible for other WV teams being unwilling to schedule FH. Martinsburg can’t get other, non EPAC, WV programs to play Martinsburg, let alone another program.

Look you can talk around the issue as much as you want, the fact is Fort Hill doesn’t want to play martinsburg because they don’t want to lose. It’s ok. Unless you’re St. Frances or IMG or Mater Dei, every program has a line they’re unwilling to cross because they don’t want to get beat. Martinsburg won’t call up Dematha, Dematha won’t call up St. Frances.

 

[FHHSAHS]

I don’t see the logic in making martinsburg responsible for other WV teams being unwilling to schedule FH. Martinsburg can’t get other, non EPAC, WV programs to play Martinsburg, let alone another program.

Look you can talk around the issue as much as you want, the fact is Fort Hill doesn’t want to play martinshurg because they don’t want to lose. It’s ok. Unless you’re St. Frances or IMG or Mater Dei, every program has a line they’re unwilling to cross because they don’t want to get beat. Martinsburg won’t call up Dematha, Dematha won’t call up St. Frances.

That's where I'm coming from as well. Holding a potential game with Martinsburg hostage at the expense of Martinsburg promising games from other WV teams doesn't compute in any language. If I was the AD at Martinsburg and a rep from a school said that to me...I'd laugh and say exactly what they probably did. "Go pound sand, come back if you want us on your schedule but we're not filling your other open dates".

When FH took the game with Oakdale did Oakdale get them other games? Did Old Mill? Did New Oxford? I'm still lost on the relevance of why another team is responsible for filling other dates besides the one they agreed to play.

 

[OneRing]

Old mill was a 2 year contract. The deal was over after this year regardless

Yeah, because contracts are never renewed. 🤦‍♂️

Do you guys ever think for yourself? The only time you make any sense is when someone else does it for you?

 

[OneRing]

It never fails, Onering is as stupid

Old mill was a 2 year contract. The deal was over after this year regardless

Wrong again like always. But we both know you won't admit it. You'll just fall back to your troll group.

The guy who makes the schedule literally said he wasn't renewing the contract because of this.

But who needs facts when you have feelings, right?

Thread 'Fort Hill at Old Mill game moved' https://marylandvarsity.forums.rivals.com/threads/fort-hill-at-old-mill-game-moved.8636/

 

[OneRing]

It never fails, Onering is as stupid as ever.

It never fails, OneRing uses facts to prove bots wrong 🤣😂😅

Thread 'Fort Hill at Old Mill game moved' https://marylandvarsity.forums.rivals.com/threads/fort-hill-at-old-mill-game-moved.8636/

Stay sad, bro!

 

[OneRing]

I'm still lost on the relevance of why another team is responsible for filling other dates besides the one they agreed to play.

Because then you can play the victim card and don't have to blame yourself. Unfortunately that's become life in western Maryland. People here blame all of their problems on someone else. It's some gold medal mental gymnastics, but they'd rather do that that tackle the issue directly.

 

[3rd and goals]

Yeah, because contracts are never renewed. 🤦‍♂️

Do you guys ever think for yourself? The only time you make any sense is when someone else does it for you?

If contracts are never renewed and you knew that then what was the point of your original post?

 

[4R341]

Like every FH fan, I want to see competitive games. However, there is still one carrot to not playing powerhouses like Martinsburg: Home field advantage (HFA) in the playoffs. Sure, if you can end up only losing to Martinsburg you can still end up #1 or #2 and maintain HFA in the playoffs. What if you lose even one more? Where might that put you in the rankings - even if they are reseeded after every round?

Sure, this seems a little petty, but still something to consider, IMHO.

 

[3rd and goals]

Like every FH fan, I want to see competitive games. However, there is still one carrot to not playing powerhouses like Martinsburg: Home field advantage (HFA) in the playoffs. Sure, if you can end up only losing to Martinsburg you can still end up #1 or #2 and maintain HFA in the playoffs. What if you lose even one more? Where might that put you in the rankings - even if they are reseeded after every round?

Sure, this seems a little petty, but still something to consider, IMHO.

You’re exactly right and I know that point has been talked about in other threads. Teams used to schedule to make the playoffs, now teams schedule for home field advantage

 

[ravemwp]

Like every FH fan, I want to see competitive games. However, there is still one carrot to not playing powerhouses like Martinsburg: Home field advantage (HFA) in the playoffs. Sure, if you can end up only losing to Martinsburg you can still end up #1 or #2 and maintain HFA in the playoffs. What if you lose even one more? Where might that put you in the rankings - even if they are reseeded after every round?

Sure, this seems a little petty, but still something to consider, IMHO.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you say. My concern is that if all schools fall into that thought process, and continue to schedule down a level just to secure easy wins, that game quality suffers, yet maybe more importantly, you run out of opponents. I'm sure there is no one answer.

 

[loco09]

As kind of an adjacent question, maybe Todd or Ed if he's lurking can answer. A lot of local WV schools have taken the approach of dropping most out of state games in favor of in state games even ones hours and hours away, is there any advantage to playing in state schools in WV or just a convenient excuse to avoid tougher opponents?

 

[TDHelmick]

I don’t see the logic in making martinsburg responsible for other WV teams being unwilling to schedule FH. Martinsburg can’t get other, non EPAC, WV programs to play Martinsburg, let alone another program.

Look you can talk around the issue as much as you want, the fact is Fort Hill doesn’t want to play martinsburg because they don’t want to lose. It’s ok. Unless you’re St. Frances or IMG or Mater Dei, every program has a line they’re unwilling to cross because they don’t want to get beat. Martinsburg won’t call up Dematha, Dematha won’t call up St. Frances.

Yep, pretty much.

Martinsburg won't play St. John's.
FH won't play Martinsburg.
200 other teams in the surrounding areas won't play FH or Martinsburg unless mandated to do so. It's a vicious cycle.

The MPSSAA participation trophy playoff format did nothing to alleviate coaches wanting not to get parents and their kids feelings hurt by getting beaten badly.