Waggle Pass said:

The over reactions to this game are funny. This team was wayyy too young to take on a team with as much experience back as Dunbar. Dunbar did stack the box and yet FH still ran for just shy of 200 yds. Yes, the passing game needs work, but with a new QB, new OL, what did some of you expect? It's only the second game. Poets have won 39 straight now and FH held them to under 100 yds rushing. They've beaten a lot of schools not just Fort Hill. I think overall FH played better than I thought they would. It was the three turnovers that beat Fort Hill and Dunbar had the team to take advantage of them.

The goal again is to win the 1A Championship. BECAUSE THEY ARE A 1A SCHOOL. They still have the team to do that. I know people on other boards put too much emphasis on polls. Some of you seem to be caught up in how they look against bigger schools. That's not the point and it's not going to win them a championship in their classification.

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4R341 said:

Not a smart bet. Dunbar has athletes, size, and a little talent to boot. I don't see them being any less talented nor us being much more talented. Without a QB, FH is one-dimensional and predictable. Easy to deal with pound-it-up-the-middle football when you stack nine in the box. And each DL being 100lbs heavier helps out quite a bit, too.

Let face it. We never seem to get the luck of the draw, playing Dunbar when we have a passing team of any kind along with a solid offensive line. All Dunbar needs to do is send their 4.4 tight ends and 4.3 WRs sprinting and bomb. Only one play is going to catch the ball and they aren't going to be red and white.

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BrianH1974 said:

the biggest problem I see is the qb can't run. He has to at least be able to avoid a sack now and again and they don't have that. I see lots of sacks and internceptions. I think coaches just went with a senior who won't fumble handoffs just give the ball to #3.

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BrianH1974 said:

the biggest problem I see is the qb can't run. He has to at least be able to avoid a sack now and again and they don't have that. I see lots of sacks and internceptions. I think coaches just went with a senior who won't fumble handoffs just give the ball to #3.

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Tony54 said:

I get the fact that Dunbar has had our number but I wouldn’t blame this loss on the coaches. As a matter of fact. I will keep a standing bet for anyone who will take it. I will wager 100 on Fort Hill against Dunbar in next years game to as many people that will take the bet.

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cumbfanatic said:

Fort Hill usually doesn’t have a passing game or pass defense and Dunbar took advantage of the weakness. The only pass defense Fort Hill uses has sack the qb, get to the qb don’t let him throw

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TDHelmick said:

No one to talk football with early today so I will ramble with the usual super speed, long winded typing. It's why I prefer forums for HS football.

Seemingly I am in three different discussions about using the so-called "antiquated" Wing-T offensive formation that both Alco and FH utilize. It only comes up when FH struggles or loses (which means rarely).

I am going to share a conversation I had last Saturday on my way to the Terps football game with the head coach for Bishop McNamara. The past month I have been trying to help him (and some other teams) pick up last minute games to fill their open holes. I don't mind, it helps to build scheduling relationships. In our conversation I finally broke down and asked what it would take for McNamara to play FH the next two seasons with a home-away deal. After all, private schools like his are now traveling 5-7 hours to play games and Cumberland is only about 2 hours away. And bear in mind, McNamara is in a league that has to play DeMatha, St. John's, Gonzaga, etc.

He paused for about 3 seconds and this was his reply straight up, "Man, y'all still run that Wing-T up there? Look, we play that game and our kids are not going to get the stats they need. They are going to get banged up. Y'all will run the ball and deflate the clock and limit what we can do. On top of that we may get beat like everyone else.". My reply to him jokingly was, "Yea, we don't play 7 on 7 up here in the fall. We rely on running the ball and physicality." He laughed and said, "You're right! and my kids don't see that."

To me, that is a massive advantage for FH instead of doing what everyone else does. As if you can't throw the ball out of the Wing-T if you so desire (keep reading).

There are always disgruntled locals who always gripe about Alco/FH using the Wing-T. That it doesn't get kids D1 scholarships. What those people do not understand, because shotgun and 4-5 receiver sets are all they see, is that this is not a Wing-T situation. In 88+ years of Alco/FH football they have run the I-formation, the split backfield, the Triple I, the veer, the fullhouse, etc.

IT'S NOT THE FORMATION. It's the philosophy of running the ball and being physical about it. Much like the Michigan team who won the national championship last season.

Opposing teams today hate physical football (not all obviously, but most). They don't see physical running games all year. They don't run it. Their opponents don't run it. They don't practice it or have to practice against it (until they play FH). The high school football world has turned into a mass 7 on 7 movement with a QB who can also scramble for yards or running backs that have open spaces before the snap. If it were not for having to be tackled, it's 7 on 7 - where the QB should be touch football like in the NFL. QB runs, slides, bumps into a defender while sliding, and gets a 15 yard penalty. Don't sack the QB too hard.

You can throw the ball out of the Wing-T or any formation. But FH coaches choose not to do so. Alco and FH have spread formations. They choose not to use them often. And if they do, then that takes away from their dedication to running the ball with physicality.

I turn it around on spread coaches and ask why they don't run the ball with power. Why are they in a Pistol on the one yard line with the QB's heels on the 8 yard line? Can't your QB go under center at all? Is it too difficult to run the spread but go under center from time to time? Is it too difficult to run the ball with 7 blockers?

As for a belief that using a certain scheme prevents your players from getting a D1 offer, you're a buffoon. Don't care if a college coach has told you this. Any college coach who claims such is likely following a head coach that gets bounced somewhere else every 2-3 years. They don't have the time to go the extra distance to evaluate an ungodly amount of prospects outside of a highlight video, stats, size of prospect and personal relationships with coaches at specific high schools. Carter Hess is my prime example. He goes to camps and lineman challenges and tosses around other 4-star prospects like rag dolls. Wins the gold belt while there. Does anyone believe D1 coaches are sitting there saying, "Yea, but they run the Wing-T." What does that have to do with the fact this nose guard is destroying everyone? Lots of teams run the spread in Washington and Frederick County. They are not getting gobs of D1 offers.

Bottom line on this discussion: FH could line up in the I-formation every snap (and they do sometimes) or even a one back set. Yet teams still won't want to play them. It's not about the formation, it's about being physical and running the ball 30 times instead of throwing it 30 times. Coach Whiteman at Frankfort summed it up about six years ago when he stated that playing FH isn't just about getting a loss on the scoreboard, his kids spend the next 2 weeks or more trying to recover physically. Very difficult for small school rosters. I actually get that.

Kids today went straight soft by just following their coaching staff philosophies. If it works for you, great. If you lose twice in four years like FH, even better. Dunbar didn't bitch about it - and that's why they win 38 straight. They relished having to face it. They can run spread or play power ball as FH found out last night. Nothing but respect for their entire staff.

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TDHelmick said:

No one to talk football with early today so I will ramble with the usual super speed, long winded typing. It's why I prefer forums for HS football.

Seemingly I am in three different discussions about using the so-called "antiquated" Wing-T offensive formation that both Alco and FH utilize. It only comes up when FH struggles or loses (which means rarely).

I am going to share a conversation I had last Saturday on my way to the Terps football game with the head coach for Bishop McNamara. The past month I have been trying to help him (and some other teams) pick up last minute games to fill their open holes. I don't mind, it helps to build scheduling relationships. In our conversation I finally broke down and asked what it would take for McNamara to play FH the next two seasons with a home-away deal. After all, private schools like his are now traveling 5-7 hours to play games and Cumberland is only about 2 hours away. And bear in mind, McNamara is in a league that has to play DeMatha, St. John's, Gonzaga, etc.

He paused for about 3 seconds and this was his reply straight up, "Man, y'all still run that Wing-T up there? Look, we play that game and our kids are not going to get the stats they need. They are going to get banged up. Y'all will run the ball and deflate the clock and limit what we can do. On top of that we may get beat like everyone else.". My reply to him jokingly was, "Yea, we don't play 7 on 7 up here in the fall. We rely on running the ball and physicality." He laughed and said, "You're right! and my kids don't see that."

To me, that is a massive advantage for FH instead of doing what everyone else does. As if you can't throw the ball out of the Wing-T if you so desire (keep reading).

There are always disgruntled locals who always gripe about Alco/FH using the Wing-T. That it doesn't get kids D1 scholarships. What those people do not understand, because shotgun and 4-5 receiver sets are all they see, is that this is not a Wing-T situation. In 88+ years of Alco/FH football they have run the I-formation, the split backfield, the Triple I, the veer, the fullhouse, etc.

IT'S NOT THE FORMATION. It's the philosophy of running the ball and being physical about it. Much like the Michigan team who won the national championship last season.

Opposing teams today hate physical football (not all obviously, but most). They don't see physical running games all year. They don't run it. Their opponents don't run it. They don't practice it or have to practice against it (until they play FH). The high school football world has turned into a mass 7 on 7 movement with a QB who can also scramble for yards or running backs that have open spaces before the snap. If it were not for having to be tackled, it's 7 on 7 - where the QB should be touch football like in the NFL. QB runs, slides, bumps into a defender while sliding, and gets a 15 yard penalty. Don't sack the QB too hard.

You can throw the ball out of the Wing-T or any formation. But FH coaches choose not to do so. Alco and FH have spread formations. They choose not to use them often. And if they do, then that takes away from their dedication to running the ball with physicality.

I turn it around on spread coaches and ask why they don't run the ball with power. Why are they in a Pistol on the one yard line with the QB's heels on the 8 yard line? Can't your QB go under center at all? Is it too difficult to run the spread but go under center from time to time? Is it too difficult to run the ball with 7 blockers?

As for a belief that using a certain scheme prevents your players from getting a D1 offer, you're a buffoon. Don't care if a college coach has told you this. Any college coach who claims such is likely following a head coach that gets bounced somewhere else every 2-3 years. They don't have the time to go the extra distance to evaluate an ungodly amount of prospects outside of a highlight video, stats, size of prospect and personal relationships with coaches at specific high schools. Carter Hess is my prime example. He goes to camps and lineman challenges and tosses around other 4-star prospects like rag dolls. Wins the gold belt while there. Does anyone believe D1 coaches are sitting there saying, "Yea, but they run the Wing-T." What does that have to do with the fact this nose guard is destroying everyone? Lots of teams run the spread in Washington and Frederick County. They are not getting gobs of D1 offers.

Bottom line on this discussion: FH could line up in the I-formation every snap (and they do sometimes) or even a one back set. Yet teams still won't want to play them. It's not about the formation, it's about being physical and running the ball 30 times instead of throwing it 30 times. Coach Whiteman at Frankfort summed it up about six years ago when he stated that playing FH isn't just about getting a loss on the scoreboard, his kids spend the next 2 weeks or more trying to recover physically. Very difficult for small school rosters. I actually get that.

Kids today went straight soft by just following their coaching staff philosophies. If it works for you, great. If you lose twice in four years like FH, even better. Dunbar didn't bitch about it - and that's why they win 38 straight. They relished having to face it. They can run spread or play power ball as FH found out last night. Nothing but respect for their entire staff.

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4inarowtopthat said:

Excellent post...and rants are allowed. I agree completely that Dunbar has our number. It has nothing to do with any of the number of excuses that have been made, it has everything to do with their adaptability and in game coaching. They will take what you give them and force you to adjust, and sometimes a team like FH just can't adjust. If FH goes into that game saying "if they stack the box we'll throw" then they really had no idea what their capabilities are. The best thing that can come out of all this is you find out who are practice players and who are game players. There are a few areas where there can be changes that would make this team better. ..we'll see soon.

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Dwj21 said:

9/17/2010

FH lost to Mount St Joseph's 10-7 and Alco last lost to Mt. Ridge 23-19.

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cognizantbutconcussed said:

I'm happy to see people aren't on here with their red kool-aid spilled down the front of their white shirts saying nonsense like FH could've, should've. Dunbar is ahead in the series for many reasons, regardless of excuse. They historically have our number. And yes they have athletes, per usual. But credit their coaches as well. They know football. But it also doesn't take a Harvard grad to come up with a defensive scheme vs a basically 1 dimensional opponent. When FH gets beat, regardless of yr, it's against teams that stack the box and make them throw. Fact check me....comb your memory bank. FH went spread in 2nd Q and forced them to back off. All I could say was YES!!! Oddly enough, it was effective. Give space, give opportunity to display talent, play some chess....1 bad play resulting in a pick 6 and it gets abandoned. Run out of it!!! Run the QB out of it. Use motion to get better matchups/numbers on the edge. The kids played hard. The young kids on the line got an education and grew up on the fly. The d line kids were getting held often, blind side pancakes, but they kept fighting and were still effective. I saw heart in the heat!!
Pass coverage, same story. Go man, and instead of moving feet and collisioning receiver off the line, we give them free release,, let them run to us while our feet are planted, then wonder why or how they got behind us? Again, not a Harvard grad. U can't stand still and catch someone with 2 or 3 steps on you......move your feet, hips, collision off the ball if ur going man. But defense isn't a focus in practice I'm told. Anyone else remember the golden rule of don't let anyone behind you??? Impossible when you're set up for failure. Good thing I haven't been holding that rant in for years or I might be confused as someone passionate about well played football. Whatever shortcomings identified or recognized....it isn't the kids fault.

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cognizantbutconcussed said:

I'm happy to see people aren't on here with their red kool-aid spilled down the front of their white shirts saying nonsense like FH could've, should've. Dunbar is ahead in the series for many reasons, regardless of excuse. They historically have our number. And yes they have athletes, per usual. But credit their coaches as well. They know football. But it also doesn't take a Harvard grad to come up with a defensive scheme vs a basically 1 dimensional opponent. When FH gets beat, regardless of yr, it's against teams that stack the box and make them throw. Fact check me....comb your memory bank. FH went spread in 2nd Q and forced them to back off. All I could say was YES!!! Oddly enough, it was effective. Give space, give opportunity to display talent, play some chess....1 bad play resulting in a pick 6 and it gets abandoned. Run out of it!!! Run the QB out of it. Use motion to get better matchups/numbers on the edge. The kids played hard. The young kids on the line got an education and grew up on the fly. The d line kids were getting held often, blind side pancakes, but they kept fighting and were still effective. I saw heart in the heat!!
Pass coverage, same story. Go man, and instead of moving feet and collisioning receiver off the line, we give them free release,, let them run to us while our feet are planted, then wonder why or how they got behind us? Again, not a Harvard grad. U can't stand still and catch someone with 2 or 3 steps on you......move your feet, hips, collision off the ball if ur going man. But defense isn't a focus in practice I'm told. Anyone else remember the golden rule of don't let anyone behind you??? Impossible when you're set up for failure. Good thing I haven't been holding that rant in for years or I might be confused as someone passionate about well played football. Whatever shortcomings identified or recognized....it isn't the kids fault.

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4R341 said:

Since FH obviously can't throw, put #5 in as QB and teach him how to hand off and quick pitch.

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TDHelmick said:

That is why it's good to play a team like Dunbar. No one is asking these questions playing another team FH beats by 35.

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4inarowtopthat said:

As usual your insights and analysis are top notch, interesting, and fair!
Tell me this, when you have a qb that just might not be capable of throwing, and the backup is no better, going to a athete/speedy/tough kid at qb and having another weapon/running back in the backfield and giving up on a passing game per se seems like adjusting/adapting/taking what you have an working with it. Almost anybody can throw the five yard swing pass to a back or a rollout and toss 7 yards to a tight end so you can still pass but you aren't just taking your chances every time you let the qb throw.
The two point conversion after fh's second td was laughable. Here you have a qb who you have so little confidence in that you don't even have a two minute offense but you throw a pass that even good passing teams would hardly ever complete. Is that your best two point conversion play? You don't have an inside reverse or wide receiver reverse or qb draw?
I get it's only the second game and I'm not even mad about losing to Dunbar, it was expected. It's troubling that with all that you said above there was still an idea that throwing the ball in this game was part of the game plan.
As far as not having 5 at safety, do you have any insight....can he not tackle? He did have the injury last year so does the staff thinks he so fragile and injury prone you don't want to use him on defense? You have said many times with enrollment numbers and the lack of kids you just have to play all your best players all game both sides of the ball...it seems like that wasn't what happened last night.

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ravemwp said:

Sometimes it’s not about being afraid. St. Francis in Baltimore had the same problem with the MIAA. It becomes a safety issue, 180-220 pound OL/DL getting pounded for 48 minutes by 280-340 OL/DL. Not safe for the players. Im sure the players will want to play, but sometimes it’s the coaching staff, and the administrations responsability to protect the kids from themselves. Just my opinion. BTW when St. Francis first changed their program, regular high schools that did play them, gained nothing and had their season ruined by losing multiple players to season ending injuries. The MIAA determined that most of the injuries were just size related. Think what you will.

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