Martinsburg is a Class 4A school in Maryland. Calpreps has Wise beating the Dogs 34-28. I think the margin of victory would be larger than that. But they also have Martinsburg beating 3A defending champ Damascus 31-30.
How would Martinsburg fare in Maryland playoffs?
- Thread starter BrianH1974
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I don't think Martinsburg this year is really that good but most years I think they would compete with The best of 3A and 4A in Maryland.
Fort Hill fans should never compare scores with Martinsburg. FH won't play Martinsburg. It's no different than Frankfort on a good year trying to compare scores with FH when they won't play. I don't think FH fans like that so much so my recommendations would be to not return the comparison.
If Allegany and FH consolidated they would have the same exact enrollment as Martinsburg. Then roll that dice and see what happens. There's a ton of people that don't really understand the concept of school size and what it means in terms of having more males to choose from. These same people also don't understand the concept that it's an advantage to have depth and players only playing one side of the ball. They don't think it matters if a kid never comes off the field. Don't bother having a coach of 25 years tell them otherwise.
If you can't compare scores of common opponents how do you compare two teams? No matter, I feel that this would have been a very good game this year, and I'd give FH the edge. Next year, the Dogs are going to be hard to beat, and FH will be young and unproven in the D backfield. We will most likely see teams that throw the ball well next year in Dunbar or Douglas of PG County. I'd pick up the Dogs just for that reason even thou a loss might cost you a home game in the semis.
On the Dog's end. they currently have 5 AAA teams scheduled. They have a couple of open dates, but they need a sixth AAA team to qualify for the playoffs in WV. I think that their first priority is to find a WV AAA or equivalent team and then complete their schedule.
On the Dog's end. they currently have 5 AAA teams scheduled. They have a couple of open dates, but they need a sixth AAA team to qualify for the playoffs in WV. I think that their first priority is to find a WV AAA or equivalent team and then complete their schedule.
This is a really flawed concept, lol. I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff, lol. This year Wise has a secondary with 4 D1 prospects. As Quince Orchard is about to find out, you can't run or pass against them with any effectiveness. If you combine Allegany, FH, Mountain Ridge, Northern and Southern, you still won't be able to match that level of sheer talent, or actually even come close to it. Be clear, I just mentioned the secondary. About 10 seniors on this squad will get scholarships at various levels of collegiate football. Unless the enrollment numbers are extremely one-sided, they have little effect on the outcome of a game. That's just a convenient excuse. .
Wise might be the No. 1 team in the state public or private as of recent. Can they beat DeMatha? Just as you have alluded to in the past, and correct me if I'm wrong, but how many kids transfer into Wise just to play football. Which according to you is why small schools aren't competitive in that part of the state. You said that if any kid is D1 worthy they are going to head to a private school or a place like Wise instead of playing for a school like Fairmont Heights. So not only is Wise huge in size, they also take in kids for athletic purposes.
But if you believe a combined FH and Alco beating Martinsburg is a flawed concept, well you would be in error of judgement.
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I'm unfamiliar with Wise and assume they must have very good coaching to perform as they have this season and make it to Navy Field. However I do not always feel that "talent" alone wins the day every time. I'd put a well coached team, like FH against pure talent and take the FH like team most times. Excellent coaching and an effective system can often run the ball right down the throat of pure talent.
Unless they are the size of that Potomac Line we faced, PG is capable of producing lines the size of the Redskins, can't run on that.
Wise doesn't accept any more transfer or out-of-district kids than any other school in the state (including WMD schools). I have no idea how you know about Wise's academic policies, and why you would make a comment that kids are transferring for athletic purposes. Believe me if that were true, other schools would have already turned them in, lol. The Wise teams of the last 2 years and next year can compete on DeMatha's level. And the Wise head coach believes in playing everyone so expect that match-up next season, maybe on ESPN. That being said, because DeMatha can take kids from all over the region, no public school will be able to compete with them on a consistent basis.
Since you avoided my entire point making a false allegation about transfer players, I will again say your argument is flawed. If enrollment was that important, why did FH even attempt to play Walter Johnson that has over 2,200 students? And if FH can play Walter Johnson, why can't they play Martinsburg or any other 4A school? And if your combine schools theory is correct, I said you can combine Allegany, FH, Mountain Ridge, Northern, Southern, I'll even throw in Smithsburg and Boonsboro. Why aren't all those schools producing the same amount of talent as Wise?
I was quoting you. You are the one who has said here the reason small schools in that part of the state like Fairmont Heights, Surrattsville, Forestville, etc. are bad teams is because if they have a D1 calibre kid they go to either private or bigger schools. I don't know if that's true. Just going by what you said.
We can continue to talk about who is better measuring number of D1 kids. Or we can measure that by won loss records and titles. But it's certainly obvious small ball in PG is trash. I will stand behind the same statements. If Cumberland had one school they would compete for PG County title most every season. But I concede Wise right now is on an incomparible run the likes of which no public school in Maryland can match right now. If you really want to believe enrollments don't matter you're just wasting time. That's just so unintelligent. It's exactly like saying a lightweight is no different than a heavyweight. You can't be serious I hope. Using Walter Johnson as your defense. LOL. yes there are 4A schools not very good.
For the 1000th time, no 1A school plays 4A powers. It makes no sense in this regional playoff system. why you can't get grasp that fact is beyond me. The only thing I can come up with is that's it's the only way to belittle what FH is accomplishing. That they don't play bigger powers.
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Even in these quotes from the Sun board, others see it.
DayWalker, on 17 Nov 2016 - 08:51 AM, said: ".. I'll tell you that all public schools are allowed to recruit. It would but negligent not to do so jmad. But recruitment is limited to within the schools' service area...
More importantly, Wise doesn't have to illegally recruit. Players flock there to win and some have to be turned away, cut! "
Maroontiger419, on 17 Nov 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:Wise doesn't do anything illegal, but they benefit from special programs and having seats open for transfers and 8th graders out of boundaries. It's legal, so it's fine, but it is recruiting and not be coincidence.
jbmad, on 17 Nov 2016 - 10:28 AM, said: Didnt say illegal, just said they recruit
Call it recruiting, call it transferring, freedom of choice, whatever you want to call it...but when a BIG school like Wise can get kids to come there, and most importantly do nothing to turn them away (nor does any school, including FH, I agree) it becomes evident. Kids want to win. Parents want their kids to win. Good athletes go where other good athletes are. It is not illegal. But there are reasons why kids move to certain areas at a young age to play for certain teams.
But there is still an issue with the population from whence these kids come. Kids from Mineral County or other school districts who moved to Allegany County/FH territory as 6th, 7th, or 8th graders have never played for any high school other than Fort Hill. Maybe they aren't technically "transfers" but there is a reason they do it. Multiply that by the size of the big counties like PG and the DC metro area (or the eastern WV panhandle)...and you get a helluva team that just keep reloading.
A big part of the success Wise has had since it opened (in addition to coaching) is the size and density of their attendance zone. It currently runs from inside the beltway (parts of Forestville and Suitland) to the Anne Arundel County line to the east and a big chunk of area from Central Ave southwest to parts of Clinton not to mention most of Upper Marlboro (so they get a big chunk of kids from the Marlboro youth programs). As for transfers, most kids that are transferring into Wise and playing are kids that were poached to go to DC area private schools and have wound up going back to public school and Wise is their zoned school.
Now, one thing that gets attention but will most likely actually take talent out of Wise in the next couple of years as more talent comes back from the private ranks and limited playing time being available is the 'transfer season' that exists at the moment in PGCPS to help reduce crowding at some schools and fill seats at others in addition to trying to convince more middle and upper class families to actually send their kids to the public schools (since they wouldn't necessarily be tied to their area school). Basically this does allow kids to transfer to certain schools every year based on the enrollment numbers at schools at all levels (based on whether or not a school is projected to have open seats the next school year). This past year 12 of the 21 High Schools had open seats (meaning you could transfer in provided you have daily transportation to said school). The 12 schools included Wise in addition to Bowie,Central,Crossland,Duval,Fairmont Heights,Douglass,Friendly,Largo,Potomac,Suitland, and Surrattsville. To this point that program has been utilized more for impact basketball transfers as opposed to any large number of football players jumping around.
You actually said, "We can measure that (who is better) by won loss records and titles" - this would actually be true if the level of competition was close, but it's like talking about night and day. For example McNamara this season finished 4-6 but every loss was to a top DC/Baltimore school. If McNamara had played the FH schedule of the last 4 years they would be undefeated. I understand the confusion from WMD because if you only see 1A football and you grow up watching FH/Alco demolish bad team after bad team, you don't understand the level of talent throughout the state. You come up with all these polls, maxpreps, calpreps, all kinds of research, with the exception of just playing a good team. So yeah, measuring the D1 players, or the amount of D2, D3 players produced is necessary because it's a measurable without bias, and a more reliable measurable. The college coaches don't care what part of the state the player lives or what level they play on, as long as they can play.
And be clear, I'm using Walter Johnson as an example because people on this board (maybe not you) have said FH and Alco can't play 4A schools because the enrollment disparity creates a huge disadvantage. If that is the policy just be consistent and don't play any 4A schools, or just be honest and say we can play weak 4A schools. This entire thread began with you comparing FH to Martinsburg (equivalent to a Maryland 4A team), another person brought up Wise, and you talked about theoretically combining FH and Alco. I'm not discussing this to belittle FH, I am talking about topics already raised.
I have said repeatedly enrollment does matter. I have used that as an example of why the Media Poll is inaccurate. To have any 1A schools ranked higher than North Point, Annapolis, Old Mill, QO, Northwest, Sherwood, etc. is, in your words "unintelligent"
So you're taking quotes from anonymous people on a Baltimore message board as factual? Just for the record there's a natural rivalry that goes on between DC and Baltimore and they probably hate that Wise is winning so much, lol.
As I said previously, Wise's success has nothing to do with the handful of transfer kids they get every year. You're another person that doesn't really understand what's going on. As you alluded to, over the last few years FH has enrolled kids from Hagerstown, Boonsboro, Florida, and this year's team has a couple of impact players that did not come up through their youth league feeder teams. But it would extremely unfair to say they're out recruiting players, or to suggest that's the reason for their continued success.
Your comparing transfers that come to Wise to play football that are the cream of the crop to kids that move to town in Cumberland. As for the Boonsboro kid. He didn't start.
I have said before let go of the media poll hang up. It is stupid. We agree there. But at the same time why do you continusly compare 1A FH with 4A schools? I see here and there were a FH poster might do this but you are overboard with cramming that comparison. Worse yet you keep harping about level of competition because its 1A. Knock Wise down to 600 students and see what happens. I can tell you what happens. Just look at 1A PG County football. Its a joke. Size matters dude. If you want to compare 1A schools do it with 1A and 2A schools. I don't get it.
Before I continue, let me just clarify that when I say "FH fans," henceforth, I am referring to FH fans in my wheelhouse. The average Joe who is not out of touch with reality and doesn't sit on the visitor side of the stadium yelling obscenities at the other team or anything of that ilk and still thinks FH is playing Magruder for a state title in 1986.
Having said that, FH fans are not saying that FH cannot compete with 4A schools because of size. The Walter Johnson example is a red herring. I do agree that enrollment can matter. But the argument is, that FH is not going to over schedule 3A and 4A schools. This year FH played 4 schools of larger class. 4A Sherando, 3A South High, 2A Hollidaysburg and MR. Take MR off the list.
I did not realize Hollidaysburg was as bad as they were. They were a bigger school, and historically have handled Fort Hill...but they weren't very good.
But in scheduling Sherando and South High, there are two teams that would defeat most other 1A schools and probably quite a number of 2A schools. They are good teams. Especially on a 1A schedule. In any given year they could field a team that could beat FH. Considering that there could be a chance of those two games being losses, it can't be taken for granted that FH would definitely beat every other school on their schedule. Especially having to play Keyser and Alco. You can't assume you're going to beat anyone, ever, on any given day.
Agree or disagree; FH scheduled 4 potential losses on this years schedule. Scheduling more than that is just bad planning. You have way too much confidence to say those would be for sure wins. And coaches have to approach it as if they aren't assuming anything.
Does it make ANY sense to schedule more than 4 potential losses a season?
Having said that, FH fans are not saying that FH cannot compete with 4A schools because of size. The Walter Johnson example is a red herring. I do agree that enrollment can matter. But the argument is, that FH is not going to over schedule 3A and 4A schools. This year FH played 4 schools of larger class. 4A Sherando, 3A South High, 2A Hollidaysburg and MR. Take MR off the list.
I did not realize Hollidaysburg was as bad as they were. They were a bigger school, and historically have handled Fort Hill...but they weren't very good.
But in scheduling Sherando and South High, there are two teams that would defeat most other 1A schools and probably quite a number of 2A schools. They are good teams. Especially on a 1A schedule. In any given year they could field a team that could beat FH. Considering that there could be a chance of those two games being losses, it can't be taken for granted that FH would definitely beat every other school on their schedule. Especially having to play Keyser and Alco. You can't assume you're going to beat anyone, ever, on any given day.
Agree or disagree; FH scheduled 4 potential losses on this years schedule. Scheduling more than that is just bad planning. You have way too much confidence to say those would be for sure wins. And coaches have to approach it as if they aren't assuming anything.
Does it make ANY sense to schedule more than 4 potential losses a season?
OK, we actually agree more than we disagree. The media poll is stupid. 1A football in PG (and statewide) is a joke. We shouldn't compare 1A and 4A schools.
I'm on record as saying there's nothing wrong with the FH schedule. If I were Coach Appel I wouldn't change it as long as he continues to win championships.
I disagree about 4 potential losses. I would say maybe 2. Sherando, based on the way the game went last year. Although if they couldn't win at home there was little chance for them to win at Greenway. And Keyser because they won last year, but it was pretty clear they were very young this season. South and Alco? If a team hasn't beat you in 10 years how can that be a "potential" loss?
Hello Troll What was that score against Sherando? Maybe you should just give hat State Title to the team to the team that would beat you like a red headed step child......Fort Hill.
I noticed that the Dogs filled their schedule already (with powerhouses like Eastern, DC) and didn't even give Fort Hill a call.
By the way, it was the Dogs who "bitched out" citing their New conference with the Va teams that fell apart after what two years? Remember, there is no room for Fort Hill after 2011, and "we need a home game against Fort Hill because we only have four." Check 2011, the Dogs played six home games. Sorry you got caught up in a lie there, it made your whole admin look bad. That was worth severing the ties with Fort Hill, I'm sure.
I noticed that the Dogs filled their schedule already (with powerhouses like Eastern, DC) and didn't even give Fort Hill a call.
By the way, it was the Dogs who "bitched out" citing their New conference with the Va teams that fell apart after what two years? Remember, there is no room for Fort Hill after 2011, and "we need a home game against Fort Hill because we only have four." Check 2011, the Dogs played six home games. Sorry you got caught up in a lie there, it made your whole admin look bad. That was worth severing the ties with Fort Hill, I'm sure.
Martinsburg has 1340 kids in its school, having lost several hundred five years ago when Spring Mills was built. South Hagerstown, a AAA, has 1290...so I'm thinking Martinsburg's a AAA in Maryland. That said, I'd put Martinsburg's team next year against any public school Maryland has to offer. Unfortunately, the schedule's all filled up.
As for playing Fort Hill, the Sentinels would do it if it weren't such a razor's edge in missing the West Region playoffs in Maryland. Two losses and you're out pretty much. Martinsburg doesn't really benefit from a playoff perspective in terms of getting points to secure home field. From a competitive standpoint, I have no doubt they'd like to play, but that's not the only concern here.
And I don't know where bleedred gets his information, but Martinsburg's playing 9 schools that would be AAA in WV next year and several that are larger. The only AA is Liberty Christian Academy and that was sort of found out after the fact through some clerical enrollment issue that they were listed in WV as a AA; but at least they got a 2-year deal. I see where South Hagerstown now has three WV AAA schools on its schedule, but assiduously avoided the big boys, Musselman and Martinsburg.
As for playing Fort Hill, the Sentinels would do it if it weren't such a razor's edge in missing the West Region playoffs in Maryland. Two losses and you're out pretty much. Martinsburg doesn't really benefit from a playoff perspective in terms of getting points to secure home field. From a competitive standpoint, I have no doubt they'd like to play, but that's not the only concern here.
And I don't know where bleedred gets his information, but Martinsburg's playing 9 schools that would be AAA in WV next year and several that are larger. The only AA is Liberty Christian Academy and that was sort of found out after the fact through some clerical enrollment issue that they were listed in WV as a AA; but at least they got a 2-year deal. I see where South Hagerstown now has three WV AAA schools on its schedule, but assiduously avoided the big boys, Musselman and Martinsburg.
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I got my information right from Mr. Reed at MBG High School. It was when both teams got back together and before both teams entered leagues that promptly folded within two years. Personally,, I haven't checked out the Dogs schedule for a while. I know that they need at least 6 AAA teams for the State qualification and there's not many teams in WV willing to play them. (They have had to resort to playing the Rent-a-win teams from DC at times in the past.)
Any time I see a door open for a possible game with the Dogs, when there's not another Sherando or Sherando like team on the schedule, I like to say something but they have to be willing to make a trip to Cumberland first.
I don't think that 2 losses will keep a team out of the 1A West. You may not have a home game, but you should still get in. At least, I can't remember a two loss team not getting in the 1 A West playoffs under the current system.
Any time I see a door open for a possible game with the Dogs, when there's not another Sherando or Sherando like team on the schedule, I like to say something but they have to be willing to make a trip to Cumberland first.
I don't think that 2 losses will keep a team out of the 1A West. You may not have a home game, but you should still get in. At least, I can't remember a two loss team not getting in the 1 A West playoffs under the current system.
Given the new classification realignments in Maryland I am going to predict that a 7-3 record leaves someone out of the West Region playoffs over the next few years. I'm not sure if they are moving Catoctin into the West region, they seem to be a hit or miss type of program. I'm just looking at light schedules of everyone in the West for next year and I already guarantee two teams with 8-10 wins and another with 7-8 wins. None of them are Catoctin or FH. It's just a crazy system. I hear people say but it never happens that a 7-3 team won't get in. There is no guarantee in that statement at all. As I have said before, even if the odds are 1 in 50 that a 7-3 team could get left out, you don't roll that dice. Schedules will continue to be what they continue to be. Just get to the playoffs. The win on Saturday just reinforces the joy of the main goal. I cannot stress enough how stupid this playoff system is.
Sad but true. As much as I want to see better teams, I don't want to see Fort Hill out of the playoffs
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