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FH basketball getting worse again as season rolls on

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BrianH1974

Blue Chip Poster
May 2, 2005
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The Sentinels are getting worse in hoops. At least everyone else is to some point improving. The opposite is true of FH every year, which is a huge red flag that should say time for a new regime to give it a try. I saw a halftime score tonight with Southern visiting at 45-8. Is this correct?

Looking at the rest of the schedule for FH its going to get real ugly. The last time they had a decent record was so long ago I can't remember. You would think at least once every 5 years they could compete. This team is so poorly coached.
 
BrianH1974 said:
The Sentinels are getting worse in hoops. At least everyone else is to some point improving. The opposite is true of FH every year, which is a huge red flag that should say time for a new regime to give it a try. I saw a halftime score tonight with Southern visiting at 45-8. Is this correct?

Looking at the rest of the schedule for FH its going to get real ugly. The last time they had a decent record was so long ago I can't remember. You would think at least once every 5 years they could compete. This team is so poorly coached.
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It was 42 to 8 at the half. Final was 65 to 38. I agree with your point. Following their wins over MR and Northern I thought they had something. I think they filled us a bit.
 
BrianH1974 said:
The Sentinels are getting worse in hoops. At least everyone else is to some point improving. The opposite is true of FH every year, which is a huge red flag that should say time for a new regime to give it a try. I saw a halftime score tonight with Southern visiting at 45-8. Is this correct?

Looking at the rest of the schedule for FH its going to get real ugly. The last time they had a decent record was so long ago I can't remember. You would think at least once every 5 years they could compete. This team is so poorly coached.
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I have been saying this over the years and never see much reaction. It shows the apathy towards the bb program. If nobody cares why make a change? If a coach can lose over and over year after year and nobody objects but a fan or two on a message board there won't be any changes.
I think when you have the athletes fh regularly does and they are beaten again and again year after the only real explanation for not even a random year of being good is the coaching.
 
novaunicorn said:
I have been saying this over the years and never see much reaction. It shows the apathy towards the bb program. If nobody cares why make a change? If a coach can lose over and over year after year and nobody objects but a fan or two on a message board there won't be any changes.
I think when you have the athletes fh regularly does and they are beaten again and again year after the only real explanation for not even a random year of being good is the coaching.
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it doesn't matter how many people object or question it. A Head Coach in Allegany County can NOT BE FIRED for losing, Until The Coach Steps down or doesn't want the job it's that persons job as long as they are a School Teacher with the Board of Education. a Coach could lose every game and not care and there is nothing that can be done.
 
novaunicorn said:
I have been saying this over the years and never see much reaction. It shows the apathy towards the bb program. If nobody cares why make a change? If a coach can lose over and over year after year and nobody objects but a fan or two on a message board there won't be any changes.
I think when you have the athletes fh regularly does and they are beaten again and again year after the only real explanation for not even a random year of being good is the coaching.
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The team would very much benefit from a coaching change. They played their best game of the season, against MR, under the assistant coach
 
bigdawgrefwmd said:
it doesn't matter how many people object or question it. A Head Coach in Allegany County can NOT BE FIRED for losing, Until The Coach Steps down or doesn't want the job it's that persons job as long as they are a School Teacher with the Board of Education. a Coach could lose every game and not care and there is nothing that can be done.
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you're not thinking outside the box at all. there are many ways to get rid of a coach. One doesn't HAVE TO BE FIRED in order for change to happen. FH fans are pretty creative when it matters. It just doesn't matter.
 
novaunicorn said:
you're not thinking outside the box at all. there are many ways to get rid of a coach. One doesn't HAVE TO BE FIRED in order for change to happen. FH fans are pretty creative when it matters. It just doesn't matter.
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No, There's no reason to get creative, it's just not possible. There has been many years people wanted the Coach fired, Rick Harris was there for years and years and people wanted him gone and yet there is nothing anyone can do about it
 
theprocessworks said:
You guys must not remember Bittner.
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cheney and bittner were both who i was talking about. apparently those not in the know don't know how these two were "fired" without being fired. when people won't go away there are many ways including f club withholding funds or people suddenly not volunteering for fundraisers or advertisers saying funds are tight. sometimes people think we live in some world where if it's not what they think then it can't possibly be. it just means you may not be part of the movement. it's nothing personal but sometimes a group says enough is enough and they start a plan. with cheney it took way longer than we thought but in the end it worked.
 
novaunicorn said:
I have been saying this over the years and never see much reaction. It shows the apathy towards the bb program. If nobody cares why make a change? If a coach can lose over and over year after year and nobody objects but a fan or two on a message board there won't be any changes.
I think when you have the athletes fh regularly does and they are beaten again and again year after the only real explanation for not even a random year of being good is the coaching.
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same applies to the clowns coaching baseball. The definition of daddy or buddy ball.
 
FH won't win another bball game this year. Maybe in the playoffs if they draw Hancock.

When FH hired Bittner they knew it was going to be short term but he would get the program turned around quickly. Mission accomplished. Then he cracked.

Jim Chaney was fired. The pressure to fire him came from every angle. That's what happens on the Hill with football losing. Other sports few care to make pressure. FH is a football school and nothing more athletically on a permanent basis. I was a real young man during these Chaney years but remember my dad complaining at the dinner table about him every single night.
 
You are right. The Chaney years were hard on big red people. My brothers played for him. But Bittner was a great coach. I played for him as a sophomore. He was tough. He demanded your best. In his two seasons he lost in the semis both years. 17-10 to eventual champs Kennedy and 24-21 to eventual champs Mcdonough, a team who was coached by the legendary Larry Johnson. So I disagree with you that Bittner cracked
 
theprocessworks said:
You are right. The Chaney years were hard on big red people. My brothers played for him. But Bittner was a great coach. I played for him as a sophomore. He was tough. He demanded your best. In his two seasons he lost in the semis both years. 17-10 to eventual champs Kennedy and 24-21 to eventual champs Mcdonough, a team who was coached by the legendary Larry Johnson. So I disagree with you that Bittner cracked
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I never said Bittner cracked on the field when it came to wins and losses. He was cracked on another level.
 
Chaney's biggest problem was following the legend of Lattimer. 9-2 and a playoff team his first season, highlighted by a 20-16 Homecoming win in one of the all time best of the series. but just 18-21 the four seasons after. Four straight losses to Allegany, though all four were one score games and two were to Allegany state champion teams.
 
FH played hard last night against BW, obviously the talent gap is substantial but way too many turnovers for FH in the first quarter killed any chance they had to keep it close, a lot of them unforced. I know BW's defense makes things difficult but they really didn't seem to run an offense a lot of times, too much trying to play one on one. If they play to their athleticism with Beal and Stubbs and Askins they should be very competitive in the area but it just doesn't seem to ever come together consistently
 
The FH gym was far from being packed last night vs BW. There were more fans at the Mountain Ridge game. As I said would be the case months ago when the argument was made about how great it is for local teams to play BW in hoops because of the gate money. Whatever. This game was stupid to play. FH is terrible. They have no business putting a team witH paid athletes on their schedule. Coach Burner deserves to get his kids beaten badly.
 
BrianH1974 said:
The FH gym was far from being packed last night vs BW. There were more fans at the Mountain Ridge game. As I said would be the case months ago when the argument was made about how great it is for local teams to play BW in hoops because of the gate money. Whatever. This game was stupid to play. FH is terrible. They have no business putting a team witH paid athletes on their schedule. Coach Burner deserves to get his kids beaten badly.
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Again, you keep making this argument and then blame the coaches for the schedule. If BW is in the AMAC , I don't think area schools have any choice but to play them at least once. And I'm sure this schedule was made long before it was realized what a National Power they could become. Maybe things will change next year when all schools involved are aware of what they are dealing with.
I have no knowledge as I was not there , but how did it compare to other FH home games as far as gate? Similar or perhaps a bit more ? The fact it wasn't full had more to do with FH basketball appeal right now than the strength of their opponent. It is that way in any sport. Look at what happened when the national power MCC came to town in football last year.
 
Redwhite90 said:
Again, you keep making this argument and then blame the coaches for the schedule. If BW is in the AMAC , I don't think area schools have any choice but to play them at least once. And I'm sure this schedule was made long before it was realized what a National Power they could become. Maybe things will change next year when all schools involved are aware of what they are dealing with.
I have no knowledge as I was not there , but how did it compare to other FH home games as far as gate? Similar or perhaps a bit more ? The fact it wasn't full had more to do with FH basketball appeal right now than the strength of their opponent. It is that way in any sport. Look at what happened when the national power MCC came to town in football last year.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say even if FH was good there wouldn't be that many people at their games. Yes years ago when they had Harris and Hobel they packed the gym for local and playoff games...but let's face it, that was so long ago the numbers just aren't there anymore except in an MCC situation.
 
novaunicorn said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say even if FH was good there wouldn't be that many people at their games. Yes years ago when they had Harris and Hobel they packed the gym for local and playoff games...but let's face it, that was so long ago the numbers just aren't there anymore except in an MCC situation.
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There's no guarantee that the stadium will be full for football games anymore because of numbers. Before anyone jumps on me, fort hill easily has the strongest/largest fan base in the area. It's just that even that base has shrunk with the area's population.
 
You are right. The bleachers weren’t filled once this year. Weather was bad almost every game though.
 
theprocessworks said:
You are right. The bleachers weren’t filled once this year. Weather was bad almost every game though.
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The rainy weather crushed attendance and gate money for so many schools this fall in the mid-Atlantic when it comes to athletic events. I have talked to ADs at many schools in the DMV area and they all were anywhere from 20% to 70% below normal fall gate income. It was a crazy year for rain for sure. Record setting rain amounts on almost a daily basis. Hope we don't get another year like it. I have golfing buddies who hung up their clubs for the season, just too wet.

Using my recollection for FH football, I think there were only 4 games out of 14 that didn't have rain or at least it had been raining earlier that day. And one of those dry games was because they moved it to Thursday due to thunderstorms looming.

But yea, I did not think BW was going to pack all the local gyms when the argument was made that they would. So if a school added BW hoops saying they did it for the gate money they don't know what they are talking about. And that is based on what One Ring touched on, it's just hard to get those huge "standing room" only type games in Allegany County and the surrounding area these days.
 
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It's a shame the numbers are what they are. I remember SRO crowds in the old FH gym for city games with the windows sweating from the heat generated-- ahh, the good ole days!!
 
Big crowds come with big games, as long as the local teams are down the way they are with the exception of Southern the gyms will be less than packed. Will a few more people come out when their team plays BW? Probably, but it's not significant enough to base any decisions on. Honestly the way I see it playing out is most schools not wanting to play BW, which is fine, I look for Southern to possibly continue playing. To bring this back to the thread topic though I just don't get the inconsistent play from FH it seems like every year for the past decade is the same story, they win a game or two that's unexpected and then lose some games they shouldn't and never can put it together. To me, as others have pointed out, it falls on coaching and being able to right the ship so to speak and keep everyone on the same page instead of just rolling the ball out there and saying go make a play.
 
loco09 said:
Big crowds come with big games, as long as the local teams are down the way they are with the exception of Southern the gyms will be less than packed. Will a few more people come out when their team plays BW? Probably, but it's not significant enough to base any decisions on. Honestly the way I see it playing out is most schools not wanting to play BW, which is fine, I look for Southern to possibly continue playing. To bring this back to the thread topic though I just don't get the inconsistent play from FH it seems like every year for the past decade is the same story, they win a game or two that's unexpected and then lose some games they shouldn't and never can put it together. To me, as others have pointed out, it falls on coaching and being able to right the ship so to speak and keep everyone on the same page instead of just rolling the ball out there and saying go make a play.
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Agree with most of what you just said. But the adage that local venues for sports are not packed anymore because of competition levels being down is only a very small fraction of the problem. It has to do with the amount of people living in this area and for those that do still live around these parts what is their income and how old are they if you get what I mean. The people that say I am just being negative about our local situation are not realists. There is a difference. Yes, bringing a team from Florida here to play FH in football and moving that game to Saturday night is likely to bring good crowds. Getting BW to play a USA Today Top 25 team is likely to bring good crowds. Outside of something that rare, it's not going to happen based on my experiences. I have heard the last decade or so that ACIT attendance is not what it once was. Well of course it isn't...nothing around here is what it once was. Some people just live in denial about it. I don't think it means we are worse off as a community. It just means that the infrastructure to support what was once here is no longer available (see Washington Street area bridges). So many things that once were, have to die off. The dreamers (god bless them) and many of the local politicians will never get this and will continue to fail trying to make this area what it once was. If these people truly wish to take steps on achieving such, they are looking and investing money in the wrong places.

The Bob Kirk Tournament is an amazing accomplishment hauling in that type of talent. Applause for the people responsible for making it happen. Will be very curious to see how it compares with the ACIT. Am I correct in assuming the Bob Kirk Tourney does not have to be Catholic schools only?
 
TDHelmick said:
Agree with most of what you just said. But the adage that local venues for sports are not packed anymore because of competition levels being down is only a very small fraction of the problem. It has to do with the amount of people living in this area and for those that do still live around these parts what is their income and how old are they if you get what I mean. The people that say I am just being negative about our local situation are not realists. There is a difference. Yes, bringing a team from Florida here to play FH in football and moving that game to Saturday night is likely to bring good crowds. Getting BW to play a USA Today Top 25 team is likely to bring good crowds. Outside of something that rare, it's not going to happen based on my experiences. I have heard the last decade or so that ACIT attendance is not what it once was. Well of course it isn't...nothing around here is what it once was. Some people just live in denial about it. I don't think it means we are worse off as a community. It just means that the infrastructure to support what was once here is no longer available (see Washington Street area bridges). So many things that once were, have to die off. The dreamers (god bless them) and many of the local politicians will never get this and will continue to fail trying to make this area what it once was. If these people truly wish to take steps on achieving such, they are looking and investing money in the wrong places.

The Bob Kirk Tournament is an amazing accomplishment hauling in that type of talent. Applause for the people responsible for making it happen. Will be very curious to see how it compares with the ACIT. Am I correct in assuming the Bob Kirk Tourney does not have to be Catholic schools only?
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Anyone who ignores the fact that Cumberland has lost 5-10k people over the last few decades is just lacking common sense, of course that is a major factor in smaller crowds but people will still turn out for "events" I looked a the MCC game as an event not just a simple game, an undefeated matchup between city schools can be billed as an event but it's hard to sell come see one team win by 40 without really trying. Outside of family, some students, and a few casual fans nobody is packing the stadiums or gyms these days especially when the weather is what it is.

The Bob Kirk tournament is not limited to Catholic schools, only BW and La Lumiere are, the main 4 teams are all Nike Elite schools though so that is probably the pool they are drawing from mostly. Apparently they are working with the ACIT people to make sure there is no interference in picking teams so there's no duplication in the tournaments. It will be a great event that hopefully the community supports as there will probably be more talent for the Bob Kirk than for the ACIT.

One thing I have wondered about is say BW joins the BCL or just starts bringing in more top level teams to play here, will the ACIT attendance suffer since people won't need to go to the event to see the talent they can just go to BW on a random Wednesday night and see St. Frances or Mount St Joe or whoever. The ACIT will be ok as it has support and history on its side but just something I was thinking about.
 
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Did this thread get highjacked or what? I know it was unintentional but wow!
Anyway, I'll put my two cents in on both topics. (FH and BW basketball)

I think that the FH coaching staff has lost the confidence of his players. He has probably the most athletic group of kids of all the publics in the area. (Southern has the top player, hands down, but FH's 1 thru 3 are better than Southern's #2 man.) The biggest problem that I see is that the FH kids are still playing each possession as one on one instead of trying to play team ball. I thought that it would change but it hasn't. We've all seen this before in other sports and in other schools. I'm not sure what the answer is but I do know that the coach has to own this and he alone has to turn it around.

BW is going to be very interesting the next few years. A failing school (financially) is attempting to revive itself by building it's basketball program. If it works, we'll see numbers increase and eventually a football program back at BW. If the Basketball program fails to generate much needed money, the program, and the school are as good as done.
 
Back on topic, since evening activities are cancelled tonight the FH game vs. University will not be played, I wouldn't bother rescheduling it unless University insists and I doubt they will.
 
loco09 said:
One thing I have wondered about is say BW joins the BCL or just starts bringing in more top level teams to play here, will the ACIT attendance suffer since people won't need to go to the event to see the talent they can just go to BW on a random Wednesday night and see St. Frances or Mount St Joe or whoever. The ACIT will be ok as it has support and history on its side but just something I was thinking about.
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That's a good question. The worst I see happen (which really isn't a bad thing at all) is that the BKIT kind of overtakes the ACIT to become the more prestigious tournament. I do think maybe holding the BKIT a little earlier in the season might help a little by putting more time between the tournaments.
 
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