I was told today at the game that if FH goes through with its appeal and loses that they could be eliminated from state playoffs. This doesn't make sense to me but stranger things have happened. Especially when dealing with the MPSSAA. If there is a possibility, just drop appeal and play on. If anybody can clarify, please do.
FH appeal question.
- Thread starter ravemwp
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I know that they are appealing the forfeits. A pretty reliable source told me that in the appeal process, the MPSSAA could also change the penalties levied against FH by not only making them forfeit the victories, but also eliminate them from playoff eligibility. As it stands now they are eligible. Might want to just close the case and play on if the possibility exists of losing playoff eligibility. I was hoping someone in the know could clarify.
I don't see how they can penalize FH for games after the player has been removed. No precedent for that.
This is going to be an interesting case.
If one looks on line “J.” on page 22 of the linked document on “Eligibility,” it is rather clear the buck stops with the superintendent of schools regarding legal transfers. It does not mention a school’s administration having a role.
However, if one looks at lines “H” and “I,” issues dealing with parental permission and physical fitness in order to participate, those lines specifically identify the role of a school’s principal.
It appears to me the responsible party related to approving or disapproving a transfer is the superintendent.
If this is true, this is not the responsibility of a school’s administration or coaching staff.
Again, it will be interesting to see what the ruling of the MPSSAA will be and the rationale they use in the response.
http://archives.marylandpublicschoo...tart/docs/COMAR_06_03_Supporting_Programs.pdf
If one looks on line “J.” on page 22 of the linked document on “Eligibility,” it is rather clear the buck stops with the superintendent of schools regarding legal transfers. It does not mention a school’s administration having a role.
However, if one looks at lines “H” and “I,” issues dealing with parental permission and physical fitness in order to participate, those lines specifically identify the role of a school’s principal.
It appears to me the responsible party related to approving or disapproving a transfer is the superintendent.
If this is true, this is not the responsibility of a school’s administration or coaching staff.
Again, it will be interesting to see what the ruling of the MPSSAA will be and the rationale they use in the response.
http://archives.marylandpublicschoo...tart/docs/COMAR_06_03_Supporting_Programs.pdf
It was C. H. Flowers and they were deemed ineligible for the playoffs after the first round due to an ineligible player.
The player was ineligible due to playing a 5th year.
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Right, but they played a playoff game with an ineligible player.It was C. H. Flowers and they were deemed ineligible for the playoffs after the first round due to an ineligible player.
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Did this happen before or after everyone makes the playoff change? I'm curious if that will affect the decision at all, as well.
I hope they make the playoffs. What a terrible way to punish innocent kids.
If the current penalty is to forfeit the games, that is the basis for the appeal.
It stands to reason the MPSSAA can’t add to the penalty just because it is being appealed. That would be crazy!
If a criminal is convicted of a crime and ultimately sentenced, he/she can appeal the conviction and sentence.
If the outcome of the appeal upholds the conviction and sentence, additional convictions and sentencing time would not be added to the initial penalty.
There is always the potential under certain conditions to retry a case.
If a school appeals forfeiture of games and is penalized more as a result, I could see this being fodder for legal action on the school system’s part.
There is certainly the potential the MPSSAA could rule in favor of FH as a result of the appeal.
One can argue all day long who knew of the situation as the season progressed; that does not really matter. However, if it is true and there is concrete evidence the fraudulent information was presented during the transfer process, that is not the responsibility of the school.
It will be interesting to learn of the outcome of the appeal and the rationale behind it.
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This is some good reporting by WCBC:
All this aside I am totally perplexed as to why any player or coach from FH wouldn't be furious over this player and his family submitting fraudulent paperwork thus altering an entire season even if it only means forfeiting the games. The reaction of waving a towel with his number or wearing stickers on a helmet seems like he's being celebrated or honored. Wouldn't that mean they aren't surprised, hurt, angry, disappointed, feeling cheated on almost? Did they know, all of them? Something just doesn't seem right here. Am I missing something? He could be the greatest kid in the world but he just deceived you and cost you in several ways so why mad at a caller, the BOE, the MPSSAA...shouldn't the anger be towards the perpetrator?????
I think most people ARE upset by the parents lying on the paperwork. The kid may have been told it was all done correctly. The players all support their teammate for being swept up in the parents screw up.
You don't put this blame on an underage kid.
You don't put this blame on an underage kid.
Actions of the parents shouldn’t result in the kid being cast to the side by the guys he’s spent all year with. I kind of agree that the shirts and helmet decals are silly to do based on the details of the situation, but i just took it more as showing support for the kid than acting like they are the victims of some injustice from the BOE. This all just boils down to his parents being really ****ing stupid and making a really bad decision.
Hopefully in the future we either just send our kids to the schools their supposed to be in, or make the proper life adjustments for them to go somewhere else.
A team and community standing in solidarity with a kid. Same thing would happen in a workplace for a union member. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but that explains it. Also, BOE approves transfers, out of district, etc. Totally on them.
Hard to blame a 16 year old kid. The parents are the ones who put this kid in this predicament. Showing support for a teammate who is being vilified for actions caused by his parents. I have no problem with. On the other hand, the Alco student section chanting "Where is Babo" while his teammates are kicking the crap out of you seemed a little stupid, especially knowing that you are probably playing FH again this week.
FAMILY
Like it says on one of the FH pants they wear. Support is what a family does for one of their own. The #88STRONG has nothing to do with cries of being a victim. It's called supporting one of your own in hard times. I'm cool with it.
Like it says on one of the FH pants they wear. Support is what a family does for one of their own. The #88STRONG has nothing to do with cries of being a victim. It's called supporting one of your own in hard times. I'm cool with it.
So you think the kid didn't know he was not living where the parents put on a form that he was? You think he didn't know that he was living in a house where not ONE other FH person lives in that area? I'm not blaming him for his parents actions but I do find it hard to believe when asked where he lived by friends/teammates he gave them his actual address and not the ones the parents told him to say. I could be wrong but it appears pretty sketchy.
Maybe, maybe not. The parents are 100% culpable. Not him.
Well I'll say one last thing and then it is what it is. Does anybody think that if you don't publicly bring this to everyone's attention and honor this kid that it means you aren't his friend? Aren't you his friend by continuing to do what you do without anything changing. By publicly doing this it almost comes off like nothing wrong has happened. This was a clear violation and it's sad that every other player and coach will go down as the team that had more losses than any FH team since the Chaney days and people will always always say FH cheats every time there is an argument of any kind. For the other aspect of Alco students being unfair do you think maybe they were egged on a little by the FH players showing such strong support?
Wasn't this kid supposed to be a boost for the bb team? Guess what, we play alco twice, in a gym, not out in a big open area. Those students are not going to forget this and the more it's given air the more relentless they will be. What about Frankfort, do you think they might have anything say at the bb games? Will MR, Southern, Northern all decide to join in like a clan and vilify this young man?
It would have been smart to let this appeal play out, a decision made, and let the blame be placed where it belongs. Maybe this us against the world or unity/family thing will bring home another title...but what appears to be celebrating somebody while you just forfeited most of your season is not a good look.
This is just my opinion, but the suspension of this player is only symbolic. Everyone knows that Fort Hill would have won these games by the same score with or without number 88.
All reasonable people know that Fort Hill didn’t cheat. it’s not the coaches responsibility to check and see where the player sleeps at night.
Fort Hill has been so successful that if they are 7 and 2 or 2 and 7 it dosent matter.
Fort Hills season is only measured by a state championship.
It’s the right thing to do. However, there’s definitely a way that the message can get mixed. Putting “Free 88” on a shirt implies that he’s the victim of some kind of injustice from a governing body. When in reality all he’s a victim of is his families incompetence. The situation is just really complex and unfortunate for all involved. I don’t envy Zack for having to deal with it.
I’d rather they do and say nothing about it honestly. When the helmet thing happened years back FH didn’t make a peep about it. They just kicked the shit out of everyone
Not going to lie, I cringed when the team carried his jersey down the stairs and put the 88 stickers on the back of the helmets. Thought that kind of gesture was reserved for someone that had literally died while in the program not someone who was still alive and well and just couldn’t play. You want to wear the “free 88” shirts and hold “free 88” signs then go for it but don’t make this out to be some great tragedy like he’s no longer with us. Just my opinion
I feel bad for the player in question, if he was somehow naive and unaware he was committing probably the biggest violation one can commit when it comes to high school sports. I feel terrible for the team, coaches, FH admin, and the Fort Hill community in general, being a life-long die hard. But, this homage portrayal was weird/bizarre and Fort Hill should not have permitted it from the players and even the F Club posted photos of it on Facebook in bad taste. The more I hear things about the father, now that this has happened, I am confident in saying, get this family away from the Fort Hill program and move on. The MPSSAA is not going to overturn the forfeits unless there is some unknown evidence that comes to light that counters the current findings or it creates a new precedent that I am unaware about as no other team has had any situation remotely similar to this overturned that I know of.
As a FH supporter, I am grateful that it was brought out before Homecoming and the playoffs so that the team can continue forward this year.
For the record, I am not saying anyone needs celebrated over this. I'm just saying I can see the kids/players showing support for their teammate. The teammate may have been involved in something shady, but not at his doing. They want to show their teammate they still like him and wish he could be there.
There is so much I would like to say about this entire issue. But when dealing with kids, you cannot on social media. So I must leave the details of this issue in my own garage so to speak.
People on social media think they know the entire story when they do not. I have issues with both sides. The only victims I see in these situations are the players and people who had nothing to do with any of it.
I don't dispute the rulings but am not a fan of the rules. Havre de Grace dealt with it last year. Gwynn Park dealt with it this year. When the governing body (County BOE) declares a student eligible to attend any school, the school is obliged to take them as a student. In my mind, that student is eligible until they declare he is not. I don't like this idea of backtracking eligibility. The people determining a student is ineligible are the same people that determined said student was eligible in the first place. Where is their punishment? Almost humorous in a way but that is how society operates. I do not dispute the ruling, just not a fan on how they apply the penalties for any team in this situation.
People on social media think they know the entire story when they do not. I have issues with both sides. The only victims I see in these situations are the players and people who had nothing to do with any of it.
I don't dispute the rulings but am not a fan of the rules. Havre de Grace dealt with it last year. Gwynn Park dealt with it this year. When the governing body (County BOE) declares a student eligible to attend any school, the school is obliged to take them as a student. In my mind, that student is eligible until they declare he is not. I don't like this idea of backtracking eligibility. The people determining a student is ineligible are the same people that determined said student was eligible in the first place. Where is their punishment? Almost humorous in a way but that is how society operates. I do not dispute the ruling, just not a fan on how they apply the penalties for any team in this situation.
I am a big fan of yours. You are in this for the young men.
I hate what happened and what you're saying, but your rationale sure makes sense.
Forget the athletic consequences of the situation for a moment. Where does this young man, going forward, attend school?. Is the BOE going to allow him to finish the semester? Is he going to have to immediately return to his home state and school district? Are the parents going to pay the out-of-state tuition to allow him to continue his education and athletic career in Allegany County? (Btw, I have no idea what the out-of-state tuition fee is. I do know that the per-student per-year expenditure in Allegany County is over 15K). I feel for this young man on so many levels.
All good questions, what about the responsibility of the BOE to gather and check records of incoming students.
If the ineligible student in question did not play football, the BOE would never have fully investigated and knocked on the door where he was registered to be living.
I will dump more info as the time passes. But this was not just a simple "wasn't the BOE fault". The MPSSAA does not have the manpower or finances to send private investigations all over the state. The BOE were to people who approved his residency in the first place. As a public school, FH could not tell him he could not be a student there even if they wanted to once he was approved. The BOE was also the organization that found him ineligible.
I will dump more info as the time passes. But this was not just a simple "wasn't the BOE fault". The MPSSAA does not have the manpower or finances to send private investigations all over the state. The BOE were to people who approved his residency in the first place. As a public school, FH could not tell him he could not be a student there even if they wanted to once he was approved. The BOE was also the organization that found him ineligible.
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