Clear Spring rules the West. How bad is area basketball?

[BrianH1974]

Wow! Alco scores 39 points in getting defeated by Clear Spring. How bad is local area basketball seriously? Alco wins 20 plus games every year beating nobody. The only 2 legit teams they played were beat downs. I just don't understand why Alco doesn't schedule better non con games. Its not like football as everyone makes the playoffs so it makes no sense. You would think Alco coaches would want to see their kids get tested as much as possible for playoff preperation. Instead of 20 wins over the AMAC which is god awful. And that's being kind. Get in a DC/Baltimore tournament and drop MATHS and Hyndman type teams. It's not rocket science.

 

[towpath94]

Basketball in this area has been bad for 20 years but its horrible now. It's hard to watch. It might just be the worst sport in the area. The last time area basketball was any good Mac Sloan was torching nets.

 

[BrianH1974]

Oh and Keyser beating Frankfort last night. Bad basketball. I've seen Keyser and no offense to the Tornado but it's not good. Frankfort, as with football, will always be a product of coward scheduling.

But it dawned on me. What are the top 4 signature wins for Alco basketball the last 4 years?

 

[OneRing]

Do you really think it's that much worse than football?
Fort Hill has three state championships, but has one signature win in those years. Really, other than Sherando, who have they beaten?

 

[towpath94]

How many area state titles in football in X amount of years?
How many area state titles in basketball in X amount of years?

yep MUCH worse

it's why football has always been king here

 

[BrianH1974]

If football played all AMAC teams I would agree. Area football is bad. But it's not half as bad as basketball. I would think it's safe to say area basketball right now is the worst in its entire existence.

I would say that FH Football signature wins the last 4 years would be Sherando 2015, Douglass 2013, Kent Island 2014, Douglass 2014, Keyser 2013 and 2 wins over Alco in 2012. Maybe Central in 2012 or Alco 2015.

The problem with hoops is that FH, Keyser, etc all stink. Alco is the ONLY half descent team is the area. The rest are a complete joke. At least in football u can count on Keyser, FH And Alco to at least be half descent or better.

Alco hoops has won 90 games in 4 years. None of those wins came against anyone remotely half descent other than maybe Crisfield who went 17-8 or a 14 win Manchester Valley. Whenever they play someone fairly legit they get beaten. It comes from the fact they play a horrific schedule and when another team takes away the things that normally work, Plan B hasn't really been utilized. Which is insane since everyone makes the playoffs. It makes no sense. That's why City teams that go 12-8 every year are way above Alco.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

It begs the question, is Allegany to Basketball what Clearfield is to football?

 

[FHHSAHS]

Our local officiating doesnt help. I know this has been a hot button topic the last week or so with some folks on Facebook. But think about it..

Alco beat Clear Spring by 22 points at Alco earlier in the season. With our refs. But were in immediate foul trouble playing the exact same game they've played all year when they played with regional officials Saturday. Alcos big man had to sit most of the game with 4 fouls and a technical. All their starters had at least 3 fouls.

FH only lost to Clear Spring by a point or two earlier in the year. Congrats to the Blazers, but its not because they are leaps and bounds better than Alco.

Alco plays the game the local refs allow them to play, and it doesnt translate outside the region. Thats why our "basketball school" has one state title in 52 years. Alco deserves better.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Do you really think it's that much worse than football?
Fort Hill has three state championships, but has one signature win in those years. Really, other than Sherando, who have they beaten?

Signature wins be damned, at least FH finishes the job in football (and Alco has before in the past). Its one thing to say that the best football team is winning state titles in a weak 1A...its another when the best basketball team in the area cant get out of the region in a weak 1A.

Theres more to it than just coaching or talent. I wholeheartedly believe that.

 

[cumbfanatic]

Clear Spring in basketball is about as good as FH, they are even. Someone already said it region refs are not what Alco is use to. First 3 minutes in the game they were in foul trouble.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Clear Spring in basketball is about as good as FH, they are even. Someone already said it region refs are not what Alco is use to. First 3 minutes in the game they were in foul trouble.

And its a big reason that local schools don't fare well in their respective state tourneys. You cant build a consistent program with inconsistent rule enforcement. The rest of the state calls the game a certain way, yet our local refs continue to allow a far too physical game, to the point of players getting tossed around and thrown to the ground with no calls.

I really think, as a benefit to our local players, the local officials need to call the game like the rest of the state does. When your big man has to sit for most of a regional game with 4 fouls after playing the exact same style of play he's been allowed to play all year long,, the same style that nets him an average of 2 fouls a game locally...then there's a problem. And it's not the player's fault.

There's no doubt in my mind that, if they had been accustomed to the style of play the rest of that state enforces, this Alco team and the last year's Alco team could've beaten anyone in the state. (edit: in 1A I meant)

 

[towpath94]

does anyone know how many of the fouls on the Alco big man were offensive? I'm asking because it wouldn't surprise me if those were the calls against him that he gets up this way.

 

[BoyznBlue]

Do you really think it's that much worse than football?
Fort Hill has three state championships, but has one signature win in those years. Really, other than Sherando, who have they beaten?

Good point: It's exactly the same as football. But it's not a problem with area basketball, it's just how mediocre sports are in 1A in general. Allegany basketball is satisfied with the trip going to College Park most years. This year they had a bad game and ran into a serious Clear Spring player. Clear Spring isn't going produce that type of player very often. But it's just the Alco philosophy, they have good players and good coaching but they're satisfied with going to the semis/finals every year as the best team from this region in 1A. Just like FH philosophy is playing the schedule necessary to win the 1A (football) title every year. Alco is rarely (if ever) going to win the state in basketball because the Baltimore city teams are just better.

 

[BrianH1974]

MPSSAA football and basketball are miles apart. It's called everyone makes the playoffs. Doesn't matter who you play or get beaten by in the regular season. Just ask last years PG Douglass football program. Maybe they thought Douglass was man enough to play Wise. Great idea. Now sit home come playoff time with no chance to defend your crown.

Basketball is set up for teams to go 0-22 and make the playoffs. MASSIVE difference.

 

[bleedred]

Let's see, according to Boys, Fort Hill wins three straight titles and is just the best of the bad. Alco has great seasons and can't get out of the West but that's ok. This guy is a joke.

 

[BoyznBlue]

MPSSAA football and basketball are miles apart. It's called everyone makes the playoffs. Doesn't matter who you play or get beaten by in the regular season. Just ask last years PG Douglass football program. Maybe they thought Douglass was man enough to play Wise. Great idea. Now sit home come playoff time with no chance to defend your crown.

Basketball is set up for teams to go 0-22 and make the playoffs. MASSIVE difference.

1A is a mess in basketball and football. FH basketball has a losing record and they get a bye in the playoffs? Forestville football finishes the season 4-6 and they still get to the 1A semi-finals? In the last 10 years only one current 1A school has won the state title in football. This doesn't happen in other classifications in the state, or probably in the country.

 

[BrianH1974]

Actually 1A football around the state is far worse than 1A basketball. I would go so far to easily state that the 3 best 1A football teams in Maryland were from the West region. But locally in this area basketball is far worse than football. In area football you get at least 3 good to very good teams. In hoops there is Alco and that's it. The rest are super bad. And FH doesn't play anyone local in football other than Alco, MR and Keyser. Which led to the main point of this thread. If everyone makes the playoffs, why would a team like Alco stick to playing only local teams? It would benefit them down the playoff stretch much better to play better non-con games. Regular season losses don't matter In hoops.

Also note that Forestville was 5-5 and finished 7-6. Also note that Lake Clifton basketball lost in the state title game and finished 17-11.

 

[otnorot]

1A is a mess in basketball and football. FH basketball has a losing record and they get a bye in the playoffs? Forestville football finishes the season 4-6 and they still get to the 1A semi-finals? In the last 10 years only one current 1A school has won the state title in football. This doesn't happen in other classifications in the state, or probably in the country.

One of the teams playing for the 1A basketball title in Pennsylvania next weekend went 11-14 in the regular season (against really tough competition):
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-school...nts-(philadelphia,pa)/basketball/schedule.htm

 

[FHHSAHS]

Alco basketball is good locally. They didn't "run into" a Clear Spring player that beat them...they ran into officials that officiated the game well. They beat that same Clear Spring player and his team by 22 points earlier in the year - it wasnt even close. Locally.

But having said that, I'm done pointing out our officiating woes.

1A sports in general, are down. I believe this. Basketball included. But here's the difference, Fort Hill doesn't play local teams in football, partially because local teams dont want to play a team that will most likely beat them and possibly impact their playoff chances. But also, because playing local isn't really going to benefit Fort Hill. Maybe Fort Hill isnt scheduling the best teams they can find, that's arguable...however, regardless of your opinion on Sherando or even South High, playing them is far more beneficial than playing Frankfort or Southern or anyone else locally. If you don't think that second half in Sherando proved to those kids how good they were, then you've got another think coming.

Basketball is the same deal, but for different reasons. There is no reason to play locally. Fort Hill, Ridge and Keyser maybe. But there is no reason that Alco shouldn't be playing far better teams from out of the area - Baltimore teams, good private schools, etc...because losses mean nothing when it comes to playoffs. Allegany is going to be the best local basketball team 9 out of 10 years, there is nothing to prove for them with a predominantly local schedule. The loss to Clear Spring was basically a fluke.

But the reason that BoyznBlue always said that Fort Hill football should play out of the area and in "hostile" environments (which I agree with, and think has paid off for FH); is the same exact reason Alco basketball should be doing the same. Even more so. Coach E or whomever is content to keep playing local schedules and not win in the playoffs is doing these players a disservice. As we are always reminded, Alco athletics has never been about being the "runner-up" or the "finalist" - so why is it okay now?

</end rant>

 

[FHHSAHS]

Alco is rarely (if ever) going to win the state in basketball because the Baltimore city teams are just better.

No Baltimore city school won a state title in basketball this year, just to clarify.

 

[alco65]

Allegany basketball will be on the decline after this year. It may be awhile before they get out of the region again

 

[BoyznBlue]

Alco basketball is good locally. They didn't "run into" a Clear Spring player that beat them...they ran into officials that officiated the game well. They beat that same Clear Spring player and his team by 22 points earlier in the year - it wasnt even close. Locally.

But having said that, I'm done pointing out our officiating woes.

1A sports in general, are down. I believe this. Basketball included. But here's the difference, Fort Hill doesn't play local teams in football, partially because local teams dont want to play a team that will most likely beat them and possibly impact their playoff chances. But also, because playing local isn't really going to benefit Fort Hill. Maybe Fort Hill isnt scheduling the best teams they can find, that's arguable...however, regardless of your opinion on Sherando or even South High, playing them is far more beneficial than playing Frankfort or Southern or anyone else locally. If you don't think that second half in Sherando proved to those kids how good they were, then you've got another think coming.

Basketball is the same deal, but for different reasons. There is no reason to play locally. Fort Hill, Ridge and Keyser maybe. But there is no reason that Alco shouldn't be playing far better teams from out of the area - Baltimore teams, good private schools, etc...because losses mean nothing when it comes to playoffs. Allegany is going to be the best local basketball team 9 out of 10 years, there is nothing to prove for them with a predominantly local schedule. The loss to Clear Spring was basically a fluke.

But the reason that BoyznBlue always said that Fort Hill football should play out of the area and in "hostile" environments (which I agree with, and think has paid off for FH); is the same exact reason Alco basketball should be doing the same. Even more so. Coach E or whomever is content to keep playing local schedules and not win in the playoffs is doing these players a disservice. As we are always reminded, Alco athletics has never been about being the "runner-up" or the "finalist" - so why is it okay now?

</end rant>

I don't understand why everyone is upset about the officiating, but other than that, I basically agree with everything you said here. To make one correction, when I said FH should play better competition to help them later in the playoffs, that was a point I made 4 years ago (before they starting winning championships). I have said many times since then that if you're winning the 1A title every year and that's your ultimate goal, then I can't criticize the scheduling. I can't argue with success.

 

[mountainmoe]

It is all about the $$$$$$$$$. When a football team has 5 away games, they can schedule 1 or 2 better teams and travel to them. When a basketball team plays 12 or more away games, they have to stay local. Costs are just too high - especially in a poor county like ours- to play for bus transportation, food, etc

 

[FHHSAHS]

I don't understand why everyone is upset about the officiating, .

Just to clarify, I'm not upset with the way the playoff game was officiated in Hagerstown. It just sucks that our local officiating lends itself to a completely different style of play than anywhere else in the state. Which in turn leads to instances where a high scoring, 22 point win locally, is turned into a very low scoring 10 point loss elsewhere.

Unless you have significant roster changes from game to game (someone is hurt, or didn't play at the previous game, etc), a 32 point swing in high school basketball is near impossible.

 

[BoyznBlue]

Just to clarify, I'm not upset with the way the playoff game was officiated in Hagerstown. It just sucks that our local officiating lends itself to a completely different style of play than anywhere else in the state. Which in turn leads to instances where a high scoring, 22 point win locally, is turned into a very low scoring 10 point loss elsewhere.

Unless you have significant roster changes from game to game (someone is hurt, or didn't play at the previous game, etc), a 32 point swing in high school basketball is near impossible.

I agree with this also. Officiating at the high school level is very inconsistent in just about every sport, and officiating does change from league to league. The debate on Facebook was about the refs favoring Alco over FH and that didn't make sense to me.