Classification projections released

[BoyznBlue]

There is talent at both schools. There has been and currently is talent at other 1A schools.

There is a huge difference between a program and recruiting talent. There is no doubt in my mind that the programs at FHHS and AHS are much better than all other 1A programs in Maryland.

To say that FHHS "has an abundance of talent well beyond the statistical norm for a 1A school" is simply not true unless one equates talent with hard work. Are there exceptions? Most certainly, but players in the FHHS program have bought into the hard work the program requires.

I know it sounds good to say, "Our boys work harder than everyone else, that's why we're winning", but it's not accurate. Every playoff team in the state was lifting in January. There's just not a lot of talent statewide in 1A. FH/Alco have been the best 1A teams in the state for the last ten years. They haven't improved, the other top schools just moved to 2A. Since 2006 only 3 schools have won the championship in 1A: FH, Dunbar and Chopticon. FH started winning after Dunbar and Chopticon moved to 2A. Dunbar won the title in 2012. FH won the next year in 2013, but they didn't work any harder, lift any more weights, or invent any new schemes, lol. FH isn't producing any great talent, but they are definitely more talented than the other 1A schools.

 

[LHSlancerFAN]

I know it sounds good to say, "Our boys work harder than everyone else, that's why we're winning", but it's not accurate. Every playoff team in the state was lifting in January. There's just not a lot of talent statewide in 1A. FH/Alco have been the best 1A teams in the state for the last ten years. They haven't improved, the other top schools just moved to 2A. Since 2006 only 3 schools have won the championship in 1A: FH, Dunbar and Chopticon. FH started winning after Dunbar and Chopticon moved to 2A. Dunbar won the title in 2012. FH won the next year in 2013, but they didn't work any harder, lift any more weights, or invent any new schemes, lol. FH isn't producing any great talent, but they are definitely more talented than the other 1A schools.

The other was Catoctin, not Chopticon. Just wanted to give the Cougars their due!

 

[BoyznBlue]

The other was Catoctin, not Chopticon. Just wanted to give the Cougars their due!

Thank you, I stand corrected!

 

[MCsoccerplex]

I know it sounds good to say, "Our boys work harder than everyone else, that's why we're winning", but it's not accurate. Every playoff team in the state was lifting in January. There's just not a lot of talent statewide in 1A. FH/Alco have been the best 1A teams in the state for the last ten years. They haven't improved, the other top schools just moved to 2A. Since 2006 only 3 schools have won the championship in 1A: FH, Dunbar and Chopticon. FH started winning after Dunbar and Chopticon moved to 2A. Dunbar won the title in 2012. FH won the next year in 2013, but they didn't work any harder, lift any more weights, or invent any new schemes, lol. FH isn't producing any great talent, but they are definitely more talented than the other 1A schools.

There is much, much more to a program than lifting weights. FHHS and AHS have programs. Otherwise, they would be like Catoctin, Brunswick and other schools that have an occasional good team based soley on talent. FHHS and AHS rarely have D1 student-athletes, but they are always able to compete with schools that do.

 

[BrianH1974]

1A is no different now than it ever was. FH and Dunbar would compete for the title 30 out of the last 35 years.

 

[Seasoned Lettuce]

To say that FHHS "has an abundance of talent well beyond the statistical norm for a 1A school" is simply not true unless one equates talent with hard work. Are there exceptions? Most certainly, but players in the FHHS program have bought into the hard work the program requires.

I have said this before, maybe last year. Has Fort Hill been gifted by a few elite-level natural talents, you know the D1 types, examples being Ty Johnson and Brayden Brown, yes, but I stress that number is "a few." Would Johnson have been anywhere as ready as he was on day one to contribute at Maryland if he was at your average 1A Maryland school, NO WAY. Not because Ty wouldn't have put forth the effort, he obviously is a special kind of guy with an internal drive to succeed. But I'm sure Ty would admit that the rigors and expectations and guidance of the Fort Hill program helped propel him to that point. The same with Brayden Brown, he'll start out in a much better position than the average kid coming from your average 1A rural school, again, because of the rigors and expectations and guidance of the Fort Hill program. They are both special kids, and it helps that they are or were in such a special program. Which brings me to the real point, so much of the "talent" people talk about Fort Hill being blessed with and I'm going way beyond the D1 caliber guys listed to the talent "en masse" they seem to be labeled as having, is due in a significant way to the rigors and expectations and guidance of the the Fort Hill Program. They take kids with potential and ultimately work with them to realize their potential. They maximize what is already within a kid, again, by the rigors and expectations and guidance they offer as a program. This success, and I understand it's 1A success but Fort Hill is a 1A school, is not happenstance, it is not luck of the draw in the old talent department. It is because the rigors and expectations and guidance are far and above the norm. They get kids to buy in and pull the best out of their players "en masse."

(I am not saying Johnson and Brown owe everything to Fort Hill, they don't, they are self made men, their success is on them, but wow, what a wonderful marriage, that natural talent and personal drive and a program that works to get the best out of them...wanna make this clear.)

 

[BoyznBlue]

There is much, much more to a program than lifting weights. FHHS and AHS have programs. Otherwise, they would be like Catoctin, Brunswick and other schools that have an occasional good team based soley on talent. FHHS and AHS rarely have D1 student-athletes, but they are always able to compete with schools that do.

??? What schools are you playing with D1 talent, lol - You're playing against kids that will be playing intermural basketball in college.

Fort Hill does have a very good football program from top to bottom and they do maximize the potential of their players.

 

[BoyznBlue]

I have said this before, maybe last year. Has Fort Hill been gifted by a few elite-level natural talents, you know the D1 types, examples being Ty Johnson and Brayden Brown, yes, but I stress that number is "a few." Would Johnson have been anywhere as ready as he was on day one to contribute at Maryland if he was at your average 1A Maryland school, NO WAY. Not because Ty wouldn't have put forth the effort, he obviously is a special kind of guy with an internal drive to succeed. But I'm sure Ty would admit that the rigors and expectations and guidance of the Fort Hill program helped propel him to that point. The same with Brayden Brown, he'll start out in a much better position than the average kid coming from your average 1A rural school, again, because of the rigors and expectations and guidance of the Fort Hill program. They are both special kids, and it helps that they are or were in such a special program. Which brings me to the real point, so much of the "talent" people talk about Fort Hill being blessed with and I'm going way beyond the D1 caliber guys listed to the talent "en masse" they seem to be labeled as having, is due in a significant way to the rigors and expectations and guidance of the the Fort Hill Program. They take kids with potential and ultimately work with them to realize their potential. They maximize what is already within a kid, again, by the rigors and expectations and guidance they offer as a program. This success, and I understand it's 1A success but Fort Hill is a 1A school, is not happenstance, it is not luck of the draw in the old talent department. It is because the rigors and expectations and guidance are far and above the norm. They get kids to buy in and pull the best out of their players "en masse."

(I am not saying Johnson and Brown owe everything to Fort Hill, they don't, they are self made men, their success is on them, but wow, what a wonderful marriage, that natural talent and personal drive and a program that works to get the best out of them...wanna make this clear.)

Actually this is a good example. It sounds very romantic: small town kids overachieve. And both players you mentioned have worked hard and have bright futures. But if these kids lived in the Surrattsville jurisdiction they would never attend school there. They would be at McNamara, Suitland, Gwynn Park, Riverdale Baptist, etc. - a school with a better football situation. That's the reality of 1A football. It's not the "guidance of the program," and once again, I acknowledge it's a good program.

 

[camper21502]

To me it seems like every yr.for the past 10 yrs. FH has had a couple kids as good or better than Alcos best player...If its from weight training then why has Big Red dominated the Blue in Division 1-2 and peewee???

 

[MCsoccerplex]

??? What schools are you playing with D1 talent, lol - You're playing against kids that will be playing intermural basketball in college.

Fort Hill does have a very good football program from top to bottom and they do maximize the potential of their players.

So...this year Sherando had a player being recruited by Penn State. I'm certain there are others, too.

When the Sentinels played Dunbar in '08 I do believe the Poets had multiple D1 players, including TA, and FH took the Poets to the brink. I believe the 2010 Poets also had more than a few D1 eligible players. Then, of course, there is Harper from Mountain Ridge who has started the last two years for WVU. Need I say more.

The bottom line is this: FHHS and AHS win because they are solid programs that do not consistently rely on D1 athletes to compete. Yet, when the opposition has one or more D1 athletes, both FHHS and AHS are competitive with such teams. Furthermore, D1 athletes only take a team so far. An excellent program will beat a team with such athletes a fair amount of the time.

Why are they able to compete? As you stated, it's because "Fort Hill [and Alco] maximize the potential of their players." That only occurs because both FHHS and AHS have quality programs.

 

[camper21502]

So...this year Sherando had a player being recruited by Penn State. I'm certain there are others, too.

When the Sentinels played Dunbar in '08 I do believe the Poets had multiple D1 players, including TA, and FH took the Poets to the brink. I believe the 2010 Poets also had more than a few D1 eligible players. Then, of course, there is Harper from Mountain Ridge who has started the last two years for WVU. Need I say more.

The bottom line is this: FHHS and AHS win because they are solid programs that do not consistently rely on D1 athletes to compete. Yet, when the opposition has one or more D1 athletes, both FHHS and AHS are competitive with such teams. Furthermore, D1 athletes only take a team so far. An excellent program will beat a team with such athletes a fair amount of the time.

Why are they able to compete? As you stated, it's because "Fort Hill [and Alco] maximize the potential of their players." That only occurs because both FHHS and AHS have quality programs.

I agree Alco beat Snow Hill in the State Championship when they had Ben Tate. He set the Maryland state single-season rushing record with 2,886 yards and 25 touchdowns. He went to Auburn and then was a 2nd rd. pick drafted by the Texans. FH had Dunbar and Tavon Austin beat if not for that lucky play at the end of the game. FH and Alco have played alot of Division 1 players over the yrs.

 

[FHHSAHS]

There is a variable we arent really focusing on, either, and that is coaching. I would put FHs coaching staff - the time and effort they put in, the way they scout, the way they prepare, the films, the dedication to be right there next to their players during summer lifting...in addition to their overall knowledge of Xs and Os and how to run their system - against ANY other coaching staff in the state in any classification.

The kids can NEVER feel that they do all the work and the coaches "just coach" on game day. The effort between the players and coaches combined is matched, in total, by only a few programs in the state. And NO program in 1A does it that way (aside from maybe Alco, and that is going to keep improving under Hansel). Thats big school/private school mentality in a small rural public school. It absolutely has everything to do with the buy in from the kids. Our kids DO work harder, because the whole program works harder.

The other thing to remember is, while we may see less individual D1 talent, is because the kids buy into the system. They buy into the wingT sets, they do their jobs and do it well. The system is not built around the players. The Ben Tate example is the perfect first hand example out there...a phenomenal player with a system built around him. Which exposed flaws when the system wavered.

JMO

 

[BoyznBlue]

There is a variable we arent really focusing on, either, and that is coaching. I would put FHs coaching staff - the time and effort they put in, the way they scout, the way they prepare, the films, the dedication to be right there next to their players during summer lifting...in addition to their overall knowledge of Xs and Os and how to run their system - against ANY other coaching staff in the state in any classification.

The kids can NEVER feel that they do all the work and the coaches "just coach" on game day. The effort between the players and coaches combined is matched, in total, by only a few programs in the state. And NO program in 1A does it that way (aside from maybe Alco, and that is going to keep improving under Hansel). Thats big school/private school mentality in a small rural public school. It absolutely has everything to do with the buy in from the kids. Our kids DO work harder, because the whole program works harder.

The other thing to remember is, while we may see less individual D1 talent, is because the kids buy into the system. They buy into the wingT sets, they do their jobs and do it well. The system is not built around the players. The Ben Tate example is the perfect first hand example out there...a phenomenal player with a system built around him. Which exposed flaws when the system wavered.

JMO

Once again, this sounds beautiful. But the narrative that you're defeating better talent with hard work and great coaching isn't accurate. The 1A teams you're playing don't have superior talent or size. You actually proved my point because you only named Ben Tate which was 10 years ago, and Tavon Austin which was 7 years ago. Look how far back you had to go! Just in the last few years FH produced Ty Johnson and Alco produced Kirk Robinette that are playing D1 ball.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Once again, this sounds beautiful. But the narrative that you're defeating better talent with hard work and great coaching isn't accurate. The 1A teams you're playing don't have superior talent or size.

Exactly! Why do you think FH and Allegany, who share a talent pool of only about 600 males, consistently have superior talent and size over the rest of 1A? You say that is ONLY because of good genes and good luck? I say because of work ethic and coaching, FH and Alco consistently are better conditioned, better coached, stronger, etc...than the rest of 1A. They are doing something DIFFERENT than the rest of 1A..hence, success. That's why teams like Snow Hill or Catoctin or whoever have hit or miss years, because every once in a while they DO get lucky and have some superior talent, etc.

Consistency. That's why the two Cumberland schools are as good as they are. They earn it by working their butts off. You dismiss that as if they are only good because the rest of 1A is weak and they just happen to have better players. I say, they are good because they do it better than the rest of 1A. That's on them.

 

[novaunicorn]

I agree Alco beat Snow Hill in the State Championship when they had Ben Tate. He set the Maryland state single-season rushing record with 2,886 yards and 25 touchdowns. He went to Auburn and then was a 2nd rd. pick drafted by the Texans. FH had Dunbar and Tavon Austin beat if not for that lucky play at the end of the game. FH and Alco have played alot of Division 1 players over the yrs.

As a fort hill fan I appreciate the comment but FH dropped an interception at the beginning of that final drive that would have ended the game. Before that they rushed in a field goal team to kick a long field goal that they had no business trying...going for the first down atleast gave them a chance to run out the clock...they blew it twice on bad decisions - it had nothing to do with skill or luck. Tavon was one guy, we lost because they took advantage of the opportunities that were presented to them.

 

[BoyznBlue]

Exactly! Why do you think FH and Allegany, who share a talent pool of only about 600 males, consistently have superior talent and size over the rest of 1A? You say that is ONLY because of good genes and good luck? I say because of work ethic and coaching, FH and Alco consistently are better conditioned, better coached, stronger, etc...than the rest of 1A. They are doing something DIFFERENT than the rest of 1A..hence, success. That's why teams like Snow Hill or Catoctin or whoever have hit or miss years, because every once in a while they DO get lucky and have some superior talent, etc.

Consistency. That's why the two Cumberland schools are as good as they are. They earn it by working their butts off. You dismiss that as if they are only good because the rest of 1A is weak and they just happen to have better players. I say, they are good because they do it better than the rest of 1A. That's on them.

Lol, where did I say it's "only because of good genes and luck"? You just blatantly misrepresented my comments. I said it's "hard work and a very good football program." I also said, "FH/Alco have the best 1A teams in the state."

I do disagree with the statement that FH/Alco have been competing against D1 talent. How can you ignore 1A schools are not playing very good football right now? In this weekend's semi-finals you have a 5-5 and a 4-6 team. You beat bad teams during the regular season and now you're beating bad teams in the playoffs. This is a clear observation. You're just fooling yourselves and saying you're playing against great athletes.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Pot calling the kettle black, you constantly misrepresent what I say. I could make a list if you like in multiple threads over the months. But enough diversion.

Perhaps my phraseology was askew, I was asking the question rhetorically...what do you attribute the success to? Why are they so much better than the rest of 1A? So you agree, they ARE that much better because they work harder. They could work half as hard, and be as decent as Northern or Boonsboro, who very possibly would compete statewide if it weren't for FH or Alco.

But my point remains, the reason FH and Alco are so much better than the rest of their classification, is because of unmatched regimen and dedication..and very good coaching.

We seem to agree on that.
But I never said FH and Alco were playing against great athletes, as if to brag them up...again, talk about misrepresentation. I mentioned playing against teams who have 1 or 2 very good athletes on just a very average squad. Ben Tate as an example in 2005. And Marcquan Green, who rushed for 312 yards last week and has probably 1800 all purpose yards, comes to Greenway on Saturday. They're good athletes. On average squads.

But again, I think the fact that you have these 5-5 teams in the playoffs in 1A is because of parity more than not being good. FH and Alco play better than most 1A schools, we agree. But they ARE that good, not just the rest of 1A is that bad. I've never said nor implied that I think 1A as a classification is full of great teams. You have a couple at the top..and everyone else. 2A is slightly better you have a few at the top and everyone else. Each class has the same disparity between the best and the rest.

I'm still not sure what you and I are even debating. We agree the Cumberland schools are consistently much better than the rest of 1A. And we agree that they both have very dedicated programs and coaches that you don't see on the same level at other 1A schools. Which in turn is why other 1A teams aren't on their level.

You seem to want to focus more on how BAD the other teams are instead of how good FH and Alco are. especially FH. Anything you can do to diminish their success. That's so mean spirited and really, just...weird.

 

[novaunicorn]

Lol, where did I say it's "only because of good genes and luck"? You just blatantly misrepresented my comments. I said it's "hard work and a very good football program." I also said, "FH/Alco have the best 1A teams in the state."

I do disagree with the statement that FH/Alco have been competing against D1 talent. How can you ignore 1A schools are not playing very good football right now? In this weekend's semi-finals you have a 5-5 and a 4-6 team. You beat bad teams during the regular season and now you're beating bad teams in the playoffs. This is a clear observation. You're just fooling yourselves and saying you're playing against great athletes.

isn't "misrepresenting comments" on the other thread exactly what you did to me?