Where did the homecoming dollar go?

Discussion in 'Western Maryland Football' started by money316, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    For years we have had to pay $6.00 for each homecoming ticket. Wasn't that x-tra dollar supposed to go to a stadium upgrade fund? Where's that money to help replace the turf at the stadium?
     
  2. LinemenWinGames

    LinemenWinGames All State Poster
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    Good question, but even if you add that extra dollar up over a 10 year period is does not come close to to covering the cost of the upgrades.
     
  3. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    Nothing that hasn't been said on here before, but its either time to go back to grass (and can anyone tell me why turf is some prestigious requirement to some people), or severely limit the events taking place on the turf.

    I have a serious question that may seem biased because of my Allegany roots, but does any one program spend as much time on the actual turf as the Fort Hill band? Don't they use almost it every day for practice? Maybe they should pony up extra for it.

    The field should be used only for soccer and football, and even then maybe only varsity games. No practices. And it sounds like they may want to start raising the rates whenever they rent the field for anything else.
     
  4. LinemenWinGames

    LinemenWinGames All State Poster
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    The FH band will sometimes use it but barely. They almost always use the back parking lot. I don’t think walking or speed walking during a band performance is doing much damage to the turf. That’s funny, suggesting that the FH band should pick up part of the tab.
     
  5. mccoke

    mccoke All State Poster
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    Cut up the old turf and sell off pieces as a fund raiser.
     
  6. alco65

    alco65 Junior Varsity Poster
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    It shouldn't be used for football practice!
     
  7. TDHelmick

    TDHelmick Hall of Fame Poster
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    I believe some of you have misguided thoughts on field turf. The truth is field turf has a max life span of 8-10 years no matter where it's laid down. The companies who install it say as much in writing. Well, Greenway turf has lasted the 10 years both times it was installed. It's not a matter of how much it got used. So some of you are confusing it with natural grass. Now grass is something that gets worn based on the amount it's used.

    The cost of natural grass is cheaper. But as we saw at Greenway for decades before the turf, it can easily become unplayable come late season. Big time! This is a guarantee when two schools share the field using it for both boys and girls JV/Varsity soccer in addition to freshman, JV and varsity football. Yet no one is going to budge when it comes to their child not getting to use the field. Even if no one was allowed to practice on it or march on it, can't have that many teams using it during the fall.

    I find it totally unacceptable to have November / post season games played in these conditions. And this is coming from a guy who lived on that mud field. I have seen way too many huge playoff games that have been marred by a slop field there. If some of you don't recall, the reason the county decided to move to turf was that Alco vs. Beall football playoff game back in 97. They really should have moved that game the field was so bad.

    Some might say, "well they used grass for 60 years". But they also didn't have soccer in this area until I think 1979.

    The only options I see are:
    1) Keep the turf, find the money.

    2) Put down grass and find another field for soccer.

    Option #2 should be a grass field at the new Allegany HS. That one can be used for soccer for both schools. But now you are dealing with the cost for a 2nd grass field, which is probably more than just putting down turf at Greenway.

    THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS: The county cannot install natural grass at Greenway and allow both schools to use it for all their fall sports. It becomes unplayable and even more important a huge safety issue once the field turns bad. And it will turn bad guaranteed...you can set your clock by it.
     
    7 TDHelmick, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  8. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    Maybe 8-10 years is the max, but more use is definitely going to cause more wear and tear and cause it to go earlier. Hell, you can see on your carpet at home where the high-traffic areas are after 8-10 years. And I don't see how it would cost more to get someone already on the payroll to cut the grass at a soccer field at allegany and the football field at greenway, over paying hundreds of thousands to keep it artificial.

    We're just going to keep going through this every 8 years or so unless we somehow start to grow as an economic base.
     
  9. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    I know it will not cover the cost but the $$$$ has to be somewhere. Even it is just $5000.00, that would be great start.
     
  10. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    If you only have to worry about the turf every 8-10 years, that's not too bad. At least that will be about 7 years of worry free (or minimal) maintenance.
     
  11. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    https://www.wcbcradio.com/?archiv=cox-comments-on-status-of-turf-renovations-at-stadiums

    Sorry, but the county is in no shape to be spending upwards of 2 million every 8 years to replace turf. And how much maintenance is required for a grass field besides mowing, watering or covering?
     
  12. BrianH1974

    BrianH1974 All State Poster
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    Sorry but the county is in no shape to build a new $60 million high school that only holds 600 students just so the two city schools can stay separated. But they did.
     
  13. bigdawgrefwmd

    bigdawgrefwmd Hall of Fame Poster
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    MANSION PARK STADIUM

    Altoona Area School District's Mansion Park Stadium has long been recognized as one of the finest athletic complexes in Pennsylvania. The stadium, which has a seating capacity of 10,400, is a source of community pride and regularly serves as the site of a variety of events which benefit the economy of the Altoona-Blair County area.

    In the summer of 2009, Sports Construction Group, LLC installed “Trophy Turf,” which has a 48-ounce face weight and inlaid football and soccer lines.

    Mansion Park's first artificial surface was installed in 1989. Omniturf provided a way to maximize the use of the facility throughout the year and at the same time, save taxpayer dollars through reduced maintenance costs. AstroTurf 12-2000 was installed in 1999. The eight-lane polyurethane running track was installed in 1989 and has been resurfaced several times.

    For 22 consecutive seasons, the playing surface has received rave reviews from players and coaches as athletes have experienced controlled footing regardless of the weather conditions. Most importantly, there has been a significant decrease in serious injuries since the artificial turf was installed.

    During a typical fall season, more than 60 events take place on the turf. Altoona High varsity and jayvee teams, Altoona Area Junior High School ninth grade teams, and Bishop Guilfoyle High School all play home football games at Mansion Park. The stadium is also the site of AAHS boys and girls soccer matches and countless practice sessions. District and interdistrict football and soccer playoffs are held each year at Mansion Park, the home of the PIAA Football Championships from 1992 through 1997. The Pennsylvania Scholastic Football Coaches Association East West High School All Star Game was played at Mansion Park from 2001-2010.

    Numerous high school and junior high school track meets, including the District 6 Class AA and AAA championships and the West Central Coaches Meet, are held at the stadium each spring. The track is also used extensively on a daily basis by hundreds of community residents who enjoy walking and jogging.

    Mansion Park has also been the site of a 1992 Pittsburgh Steeler intrasquad scrimmage, the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference men's and women's college soccer championships, University of Pittsburgh preseason football practices and the 1995 PIAA Soccer Championships.

    Music events have also been well-received. Appearances by the Beach Boys, Up With People, the United States Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, the Penn State Blue Band, the Ohio State Pride of the Buckeyes Band, the University of Notre Dame Band of the Fighting Irish, the University of Illinois Marching Illini and the Indiana University of Pennsylvania Marching Band have attracted huge crowds. Drum Corps International competitions were held in 1998 and again in 2000.

    Altoona Area High School's Commencement is scheduled at the stadium each year. Mansion Park is also the home of the American Cancer Society's Relay for Life.

    Earlier this year, a new scoreboard featuring a video display board with an improved stadium sound system was erected thanks to the generosity of local sponsors.

    although they do take care of this place as they have machines that are used weekly to go across the field and pick up rubber pellets and then they use the machine to spread new pellets.
     
  14. bigdawgrefwmd

    bigdawgrefwmd Hall of Fame Poster
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  15. TDHelmick

    TDHelmick Hall of Fame Poster
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    Field Turf is better when dealing with multi-sports and events. No question. But in typical Cumberland style the county can't afford it apparently.

    When I was asked my two cents by city council friends my answer was this simple:
    The cost to get in the stadium for an event always has $1 set aside for stadium renovation. After 9 years the BOE has been able to collect somewhere over $300,000 from this fund if I understand finances correctly. Henceforth, they should raise the cost of admission $2 per event and set aside $3 for stadiuim renovation, which would garner about $1 million every 10 years. The reply I got was too many people will complain. My reply to that is...SO WHAT?

    One of the main issues with this county is people here don't want change, not even cost structure. We don't care if Greenway Avenue Stadium doesn't exist anymore but all be gosh darn it if we are going to pay $2 extra for a ticket. Now we will pay $10 to $12 to watch a 90 minute movie at the theater but won't pay $7 to support local kids while watching them play a game.

    Hence my personal epiphany I learned upon moving back here several years ago when I realized the county motto, "WELCOME TO ALLEGANY COUNTY, WHERE WE WOULD RATHER DIE THAN CHANGE." Think about that one.

    I will say once again...if they put natural grass down at Greenway, 7 different fall sports teams between two schools cannot all play there. Half of the events will have to move somewhere else and play. And there can be no practicing or marching on it. This is not debatable.
     
    15 TDHelmick, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  16. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    Isn't the state paying the vast majority of that? And are you comparing the need of a new school to the need of new playing surface.
     
    16 OneRing, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  17. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    If the turf is not fixed, where are all the events held there going to be held? Sooner or later, some high ranking state official will come in and look at the turf and ban activities from being held on it due to a major safety concern.

    With the price tag of the new school couldn't a stadium have been built with inexpensive and low maintenance grass? It does not need to be the size of Greenway, but the size of Mtn. Ridge/ Keyser would suffice. But, homecoming would have to be played at Greenway due to the size of the crowd.

    How much can Manges & Hare put you down for? And before you spin this, I will be walking to raise money for 'Ol Greenway.
     
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  18. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    What?
     
  19. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    what do you need me to clarify?
     
  20. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    The entire nonsensical thing.

    'If the turf is not fixed, where are all the events held there going to be held?'

    On the grass that would replace it. What else do you think they would play on? For you to actually say that the kids are now incapable of playing grass is funny.

    'Sooner or later, some high ranking state official will come in and look at the turf and ban activities from being held on it due to a major safety concern.'

    And do what? Shut down the entire county school system?

    'With the price tag of the new school couldn't a stadium have been built with inexpensive and low maintenance grass?'

    So you are saying that only fort hill should have to pay for greenway, if its stays artificial.

    'But, homecoming would have to be played at Greenway due to the size of the crowd'

    Why? So fort hill can keep that extra road game at Greenway?

    'How much can Manges & Hare put you down for?'

    Nothing. You said fort hill should have to pay for it. Besides, why would I pay for something I don't want? If you want to pay for it, by all means donate all you want. And be sure to walk extra far to make it seem like it was because of you and you alone that football season will be able to happen this fall.
     
  21. hbpass2

    hbpass2 All Region Poster
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    If grass is so inexpensive then why wouldn’t the new alco get a field?

    Do you really believe that a grass field could with stand the entire the fall sports season? The answer obviously no. Hence the reason of the turf that is currently at greenway.
     
    21 hbpass2, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  22. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    If field turf is so necessary and inexpensive, why isn't the Fort Hill practice field covered with it? Do they not care about their kids?

    You are trying to tell me that you think there were no fall sports at greenway until 1998? Please tell me what they did before then for the fall sports.
     
  23. FHHSAHS

    FHHSAHS Hall of Fame Poster
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    By Homecoming, prior to 1998, I dont know that I remember a year the field was not basically a mud pit with two grassy end zones. It seemed to get worse every year.
     
  24. ConeyIsland

    ConeyIsland Junior Varsity Reader
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    Exactly. Maybe no one's ever seen that picture of Chris Golliday from (I think) 1997 Homecoming, literally covered in mud.

    So here are the numbers, according to the guy who sold the field to the Board of Ed:

    Replacing the field as-is would run about $600k, give or take a few variables, and it's very standard that they last 10 years. I was on the turf a few weeks back, and it isn't in unplayable condition, so stretching it another year or so isn't crazy. What's crazy is that the Board didn't prep for this, and to Todd's point, doesn't seem to have ever had a legitimate action plan for making sure they can pay for a replacement every 10 years. Crazy, but not surprising...

    Can you imagine the fallout that will happen in Frostburg once Ridge's turf, which is only used for one school and not two, starts to wear down in a few years, and they're asking the board for an extra $600k also?
     
  25. hbpass2

    hbpass2 All Region Poster
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    Who said turf wasn’t expensive? Who said it is necessary? This whole thread was about how expensive turf is.
     
  26. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    Its actually about what happened to the extra dollar at homecoming.
     
  27. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    I remember years it was fine all season. Just depended on how much it rained.
     
  28. hbpass2

    hbpass2 All Region Poster
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    You got me there. But who supposedly said turf was inexpensive? Who supposedly said turf was necessary?
     
  29. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    Where did I say " that the kids are now incapable of playing on grass"?

    Where did I even remotely mention shutting down the entire county school system? It was specifically a statement about Greenway.

    Where did I mention Fort Hill's schedule as per keeping that extra road game at Greenway?

    Where did I say Fort Hill should have to pay for it?

    "Why would I pay for something I don't want"? My advice is if you don't want it, if you don't like it, then don't go. Where was your protest when the turf was previously put down?

    Where did I say I was walking to make it seem like it was because of me and me alone that football season will be able to happen this fall?

    Above are very simple and specific questions, and, a few comments. There should be no issues with being able to answer them.

    By the way, my donation to help out 'Ol Greenway will also benefit the Allegany Campers.
     
    29 money316, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  30. TDHelmick

    TDHelmick Hall of Fame Poster
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    Allegany County is B-R-O-K-E.
    I have lived a part of my life trying to make ends meet paying bills. Not an easy time. It's not a place for the government to be in. And when it is things get real crazy. Like not being able to repair bridges, roads, buildings, computers, books, clean water, the list goes on and on.

    The infrastructure of Cumberland was built at a time when this was the Queen City - meaning the 2nd biggest city in Maryland behind only Baltimore. The city is now trying to repair and replace infrastructure with a tax base that is about 1/16th of what the population was when it was built. In other words it can't be done. And we are seeing this now. Greenway turf (and yes soon to be Mountain Ridge turf) is one of those issues much like schools operating on the bare minimum expense. This is why school consolidation was necessary, but people living here were not smart enough to see down the road because they wanted to protect their political place like most politicians do. In other words there is no local politician or admin who wanted to be responsible for making Cumberland schools consolidate. They wouldn't have a job if they did. And that is where leadership is no longer in the English vocabulary in our two party short-term system.
     
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  31. alco65

    alco65 Junior Varsity Poster
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    FH practice field isn't covered with it because they use Greenway for practice
     
  32. FHHSAHS

    FHHSAHS Hall of Fame Poster
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    I believe that's an intentionally vague overstatement. Not saying they have never been on that field outside of game time, but I've personally only noticed FH's football team practicing up behind the visitor bleachers.

    But I've seen both schools have various sports and auxilliary groups on the Greenway turf for various practices, band, soccer, etc... Alco's band has had the lights on in the evenings to practice for their shows.I'm not really bothered by any of it.
     
  33. alco65

    alco65 Junior Varsity Poster
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    I am not bothered by it, just stating the fact that FH varsity practices just about everyday
     
  34. Redwhite90

    Redwhite90 Junior Varsity Poster
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    As an outsider looking in, if there is one venue that should ample opportunity to raise the money needed to replace the artificial turf, it should be Greenway Avenue Stadium. The answer seems evident to me with a little foresight and planning for the future, and it should have been started 10 years ago when the last turf was put down. Greenway has the distinct advantage of have 2 schools events at that location. Thus EVERY year there are at least 10 combined home games between FH and ALCO varsity football at that field ( one being homecoming). So.... EVERY ticket sold at that field to EVERY game played there has $1.00 that goes to the turf replacement. That means EVERY varsity and jv football, soccer, band competition, CAYFL game and any other ticket sold at the stadium. Everyone benefits from the turf so everyone pays the "turf tax" . Now that may mean they must charge 6 instead of 5 for an adult or 4 instead of 3 for a child but it is what it is. For those who attend a lot of games , season passes would allow them to help make the increase pretty negligible. But it would have to be agreed that the money collected for this "turf tax" be used ONLY for the turf. That means that unlike our congress, it could not be used for other projects like new locker rooms or a new scoreboard or other stadium bills. Of course people would complain at the increased rate just like they do when the price of gas raises but they would pay it..... and after 10 years, Greenway would be in a much better position to replace their turf.
     
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  35. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    Money316: "If the turf is not fixed, where are all the events held there going to be held?"
     
  36. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    so many questions....no answers
     
  37. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    So many stupid questions... Not one point made in the meanwhile.
     
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  38. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    When you said if they dont fix the turf there will be no events.

    Who said someone from the state would come if the turf wasn't fixed. You.

    Where did I mention the new Allegany.

    Then why did you mention Allegany should pay for its on stadium?

    Where did I say I'm going to the games?

    Why would you mention walking then?

    Your questions really didn't deserve answers, but there you go.

    And please explain how you walking helps allegany?
     
  39. money316

    money316 Junior Varsity Poster
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    OOOOOPS, my bad. I must have overwhelmed you by asking so many questions at the same time. My apologies.

    Let me just randomly pick just one and start with that. Lets see...here is an easy one. Where did I say Fort Hill should have to pay for it?
     
  40. OneRing

    OneRing All State Poster
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    Oh, so now we can't answer questions with more questions? Or, are you the only one allowed to do that? You have to tell me when you change the rules a little earlier.

    And then you switch right back to it by the end of your post. Such a mess.
     

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