New Town scrimmage turns sour

[TDHelmick]

First, the scrimmage with New Town and Fort Hill got moved from Greenway to Mountain Ridge HS due to the FH track being completed. We kept a score clock, a play clock, refs, punts, kick offs. It was run like a regular season game to some extent.

The scrimmage didn't end. FH called it quits with roughly 6 minutes to go.

FH completely dominated the first half with the first groups going at it 21-7.

After the first series by both teams in the second half with no scoring FH decided to put the 2nd unit in. That's pretty much normal procedure in scrimmages. New Town never did. At first I think FH was like OK, let them run their first group against our subs but it just continued the whole second half. With the third team in and about 7 minutes to go in the fourth quarter the FH head coach had to literally stop the game and go over to the New Town sideline to tell their coach if he was going to keep using his first team FH was going to walk away. A few plays later New Town still had their first group in and FH walked off.

I'm not exactly sure what New Town was trying to accomplish. The bottom line is that scrimmages are set up with cooperation and the goal to develop. Doesn't matter what level, pro, high school, youth league. The second half was a complete waste of time.

 

[Tony54]

Thanks for sharing. if i remember last year year, Fort Hill had their hands full with them

 

[ravemwp]

On another thread I posted almost the same post. 1s vs 1s FH got the better. Horrible display of sportsmanship by NT. AD there may want to have a chat with coaching. I hope they enjoy their ride back to Owings Mills with their August Championship in tow. Remember always that KARMA is the most patient GANGSTER. I don't remember the FH 1s on the field at all in the 2nd half with the exception of KO returns.

 

[Waggle Pass]

I didn't stay for the whole thing, but I remember when they scored on the FH subs in the 2nd half you would have thought they just won states by the way they celebrated.

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

were they playing dirty or something? they were 7-4 last season and their online Roster says they have 27 Varsity players.

 

[TDHelmick]

were they playing dirty or something? they were 7-4 last season and their online Roster says they have 27 Varsity players.

No not dirty. Although one of the last plays was when the New Town 250 lb lineman picked up the 120 LB Fort Hill fullback and slammed him to the tune of a 15 yard penalty. That was about the last straw for the scrimmage. It's halfway through the 4th quarter and all the starters were still in against the FH 3rd team. Scrimmages are generally a cooperation between teams trying to get the most out of development. When asked to use back ups you think they would not only oblige by want to to that. There was nothing to be gained at that point for either team.

 

[Argox66]

No not dirty. Although one of the last plays was when the New Town 250 lb lineman picked up the 120 LB Fort Hill fullback and slammed him to the tune of a 15 yard penalty. That was about the last straw for the scrimmage. It's halfway through the 4th quarter and all the starters were still in against the FH 3rd team. Scrimmages are generally a cooperation between teams trying to get the most out of development. When asked to use back ups you think they would not only oblige by want to to that. There was nothing to be gained at that point for either team.

Classy.

 

[OneRing]

Karma for what?

I can just imagine the REEEEING on here if anyone on another message board said anything about how FH coached a scrimmage

 

[FHHSAHS]

Just seems like New Town had a different priority for the scrimmage. I don't have an issue with a coach discussing it with the other coach, and if it seems like it's not beneficial to one, then saying "okay, we're done"...I dont really think it's as big a deal as some want to make it.

 

[ravemwp]

Karma for what?

I can just imagine the REEEEING on here if anyone on another message board said anything about how FH coached a scrimmage

If you are referring to my comment about Karma, let me preface this by saying, I did not go to Fort Hill or am I a supporter of Fort Hill. I haven't lived here in over forty years. I have always been a supporter of all Cumberland area high school sports, especially as it pertains to state championships and area recognition. You can find me anywhere from a high school football game, to a girls JV Volleyball game. One of the things I've loved about Cumberland is the way it has continued to promote youth and high school sports in the area. So this was never about anything other than what I witnessed on Saturday. A horrible display of sportsmanship by the New Town coaching staff. just a neutral point of view. Karma comment reminding others that sometimes you get what you give. Again I don't have any connections to Fort Hill high school, other then spending some years in Cumberland as a teenager many years ago.

 

[TDHelmick]

Karma for what?

I can just imagine the REEEEING on here if anyone on another message board said anything about how FH coached a scrimmage

Not sure Karma is the correct verbiage. At the same time if a coach has the fortitude to have the starters in late in the 4th quarter of a scrimmage against the other team's 3rd string I've got the fortitude to call him out. Both are open for the public to see.

Certainly there are unwritten rules applied here. Like when to match putting subs in a scrimmage. Much the same as exchanging game film. The unwritten rule is you exchange film of the previous two games. The other teams get pissed when that does not happen. In fact FH spent a decade not exchanging any film that caused opponents to never play them again. So maybe FH is getting their due unwritten agreement "karma". I doubt FH will refuse to play the other team though.

FH is to return the scrimmage next year. That will only happen if we come to a beforehand agreement to get rid of the real game scoreboard and go 10 plays offense / 10 plays defense set up like most use and when to utilize the subs full time. Most every team I know has no interest in using their first unit the whole entire scrimmage. So a mutual cooperation will be required.

 

[Tony54]

I don’t have issues with it either. obviously I’m not a coach but what I have noticed over the years is that Fort Hill gets markebly better as the season goes on. For example northern gave Fort Hill very good game at the beginning of the season and by the end of the year it was a huge mismatch. The Keyser game a few years ago also comes to mind. I watched Keyser run all over Fort Hill and the defense was horrible. That team went on to win a state championship and was thoroughly dominating. If the starters had more practice before the beginning of the season I think it would help. There is plenty of time in the third and fourth quarters of a lot of games to get the second and third string in.

 

[ravemwp]

Not sure Karma is the correct verbiage. At the same time if a coach has the fortitude to have the starters in late in the 4th quarter of a scrimmage against the other team's 3rd string I've got the fortitude to call him out. Both are open for the public to see.

Certainly there are unwritten rules applied here. Like when to match putting subs in a scrimmage. Much the same as exchanging game film. The unwritten rule is you exchange film of the previous two games. The other teams get pissed when that does not happen. In fact FH spent a decade not exchanging any film that caused opponents to never play them again. So maybe FH is getting their due unwritten agreement "karma". I doubt FH will refuse to play the other team though.

FH is to return the scrimmage next year. That will only happen if we come to a beforehand agreement to get rid of the real game scoreboard and go 10 plays offense / 10 plays defense set up like most use and when to utilize the subs full time. Most every team I know has no interest in using their first unit the whole entire scrimmage. So a mutual cooperation will be required.

Maybe Karma was not the correct choice of words. What I was getting at was it was quite obvious that New Town coaching staff totally disrespected the intent of a pre-season scrimmage during the 2nd half. I had an interesting thought driving home from the scrimmage. Thinking of New Town 2nd and 3rd stringers who rode a bus for 5 hours round trip, not to play a single snap. Not sure what the correct verbiage should be, but what happened Saturday just shouldn't happen in this day and age. From the FH running back who was full body slammed, to the kids who practice and never got to play, seems New Town coaching staff disregarded the spirit of the scrimmage process.

 

[OneRing]

Do you really want to have to count all the times in the past few seasons that FH was up 3-4 touchdowns at halftime and came back out with the starters in the second half. And I know the weak coachspeak of "they have to get used to going back out" or the like will be used in defense of the practice, but what's the difference? The game is over, the unwritten rules says put the subs in. But nah, let's get another touchdown. 99% of FH fans clutching their pearls that New Town didnt sub will say its fine that FH put the starters back out.

The intent of a scrimmage is to get better. They are supposed to stop just because the other team was fine with the way they were playing?

 

[OneRing]

Just seems like New Town had a different priority for the scrimmage. I don't have an issue with a coach discussing it with the other coach, and if it seems like it's not beneficial to one, then saying "okay, we're done"...I dont really think it's as big a deal as some want to make it.

That's what I'm getting. They weren't happy with the way the 1st team was playing. If the 1st team isn't getting it, what's the point of moving on to the 2nd team?

 

[TDHelmick]

Do you really want to have to count all the times in the past few seasons that FH was up 3-4 touchdowns at halftime and came back out with the starters in the second half. And I know the weak coachspeak of "they have to get used to going back out" or the like will be used in defense of the practice, but what's the difference? The game is over, the unwritten rules says put the subs in. But nah, let's get another touchdown. 99% of FH fans clutching their pearls that New Town didnt sub will say its fine that FH put the starters back out.

The intent of a scrimmage is to get better. They are supposed to stop just because the other team was fine with the way they were playing?

Scrimmage is not a game.
FH is supposed to return the scrimmage next year. There is nothing written they have to. When everyone does whatever they want things like this happen. It's called cooperation when it comes to scrimmaging. There are no written scrimmage contracts.

 

[Tony54]

Scrimmage is not a game.
FH is supposed to return the scrimmage next year. There is nothing written they have to. When everyone does whatever they want things like this happen. It's called cooperation when it comes to scrimmaging. There are no written scrimmage contracts.

Makes sense. My priorities would be to work on things like the passing game etc. With the starters in place and my main subs

 

[OneRing]

Scrimmage is not a game.
FH is supposed to return the scrimmage next year. There is nothing written they have to. When everyone does whatever they want things like this happen. It's called cooperation when it comes to scrimmaging. There are no written scrimmage contracts.

Everyone makes the playoffs.
Nothing written says they have to match subs with FH.

If it's a scrimmage, why are there refs, game clock and quarters, etc?

 

[TDHelmick]

Everyone makes the playoffs.
Nothing written says they have to match subs with FH.

If it's a scrimmage, why are there refs, game clock and quarters, etc?

Gotcha. If it's not written do whatever you feel.
It's an easy solution for FH, either script the scrimmage or no need to return it.

 

[FHHSAHS]

Hell, to flip it completely over - one could argue that FH's non-starters got some rare playing time against starters from a historically decent team. When the non-starters come in during a season game it's already a blowout, and the other team is usually playing their subs as well. I dont condone overly aggressive play, and if New Town was perceived as doing that, then Coach made a good call by ending it a little early. It is just a scrimmage. By 6 mins left, I think it's safe to say both teams got what they needed out of the scrimmage by that point.

However, moving forward, the hosting team can make whatever concessions or rules they want. And if FH would prefer to layout the ground rules, then that's fine too.

On the other hand, The Quad is a much more structured event, and I thought it was (and pretty much always is) a great way to start the pre-season.

 

[OneRing]

Gotcha. If it's not written do whatever you feel.
It's an easy solution for FH, either script the scrimmage or no need to return it.

That, or maybe just be sure to tell the other team it's supposed to be just like a game until the FH coaches, whenever they feel its a scrimmage again, decide how the other coaches should handle it.

 

[TDHelmick]

Hell, to flip it completely over - one could argue that FH's non-starters got some rare playing time against starters from a historically decent team. When the non-starters come in during a season game it's already a blowout, and the other team is usually playing their subs as well. I dont condone overly aggressive play, and if New Town was perceived as doing that, then Coach made a good call by ending it a little early. It is just a scrimmage. By 6 mins left, I think it's safe to say both teams got what they needed out of the scrimmage by that point.

However, moving forward, the hosting team can make whatever concessions or rules they want. And if FH would prefer to layout the ground rules, then that's fine too.

On the other hand, The Quad is a much more structured event, and I thought it was (and pretty much always is) a great way to start the pre-season.

Even at the Quad, the third team you face is all subs.
This experience has taught me to make format agreements with coaches before lining up the scrimmage. If the two can't come to a decision good for both parties then move on to another team. It's an actual assumption (or unwritten rule) at every scrimmage I have ever been a part of to use subs towards the end. Same as exchanging film. But if that isn't made clear beforehand then it is whatever it becomes.

I don't think FH coaches had any issue when their subs came in to start the 2nd half and New Town kept their starters in. It was with about 7 minutes left with the FH 3rd team in that caused FH to end the scrimmage early against the New Town first unit. Yes, it was a safety issue at that point sad to say. Kind of like why Hancock and Clear Spring opt out of the playoffs.

I've said it here many times. Yes, FH has great numbers for a tiny 1A program. 35-45 man roster many times. But after the top 16 players the drop off in talent is extreme. Even when beating teams like Silver Oak or MATHS by 60 points in the third quarter, FH puts their subs in and MATHS scores 3 times in 6 plays.

The numbers are still a bonus. FH may have 16 kids who can ball. Other 1A schools may have 3-10 that can ball.

 

[encroachmentatthetwenty]

Yes, it was a safety issue at that point sad to say. Kind of like why Hancock and Clear Spring opt out of the playoffs.

Most definitely a safety issue from what I observed. Good move by the FH coaches to end it when they did.

 

[bigdawgrefwmd]

Even at the Quad, the third team you face is all subs.
This experience has taught me to make format agreements with coaches before lining up the scrimmage. If the two can't come to a decision good for both parties then move on to another team. It's an actual assumption (or unwritten rule) at every scrimmage I have ever been a part of to use subs towards the end. Same as exchanging film. But if that isn't made clear beforehand then it is whatever it becomes.

I don't think FH coaches had any issue when their subs came in to start the 2nd half and New Town kept their starters in. It was with about 7 minutes left with the FH 3rd team in that caused FH to end the scrimmage early against the New Town first unit. Yes, it was a safety issue at that point sad to say. Kind of like why Hancock and Clear Spring opt out of the playoffs.

I've said it here many times. Yes, FH has great numbers for a tiny 1A program. 35-45 man roster many times. But after the top 16 players the drop off in talent is extreme. Even when beating teams like Silver Oak or MATHS by 60 points in the third quarter, FH puts their subs in and MATHS scores 3 times in 6 plays.

The numbers are still a bonus. FH may have 16 kids who can ball. Other 1A schools may have 3-10 that can ball.

so if it's a safety issue for those kids why not cut them and tell them the truth that they are not football players and you don't want to see them get hurt so it's best they don't play football? I mean that's better than trying to tell another Team's coach how to run his team.

 

[theprocessworks]

You need 3rd string players. Cutting them isn’t the answer because they can’t play with a 3A teams 1s. What you do if you don’t like it is put your 1’s back in or you do what they did and say we have seen enough. Don’t go down there next year. Find teams and make agreements ahead of time. It’s not hard.

 

[Dwj21]

There's some seriously ridiculous folks on this post, ffs...

 

[Tony54]

Most definitely a safety issue from what I observed. Good move by the FH coaches to end it when they did.

Sorry but it just doesn’t make sense to me. If Newtown is leaving their starters in and it’s a safety issue for Fort Hill, then put your starters back in so they can have more practice to get ready for the first game.

 

[Bleedred4life]

Fort Hill's 1's didn't need more work. The real issue was the behavior of the New Town kids. Apparently New Town wanted to play their starters for 4 quarters and that is fine. The cheep shots (body slams) and the trash talk (to include the name calling) to the extent that it was happening are not something that is productive to the scrimmage. The whole thing was going south and Zach did the right thing to finish the scrimmage when he did.

 

[TDHelmick]

There is a reason the NFL uses subs in the preseason after the first quarter or first series. Think about it.

 

[ravemwp]

I think most people on here agree that what happened in the 2nd half on Saturday, and especially the 4th quarter was wrong in some way, shape, or form. Being new on here what I notice is that some people just hate Fort Hill, because they are Fort Hill whether they are culpable of something or not. Hate for Hates sake never helps anything, including this conversation.

 

[Tony54]

I don’t think any of the posts on here were derogatory against Fort Hill. For myself and the other people we were just commenting that there are reasons to play your starters the whole game.