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If FH beats North Carroll, Surrattsville likely to return to Greenway

TDHelmick

TDHelmick

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May 29, 2001
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Based on logical projections, if FH beats North Carroll next weekend, they will then move on to the state semifinals and face the lowest seed available. As of now that is Surrattsville who posted a 6-4 regular season record. Surrattsville will travel to undefeated FAET next week and I see them as a heavy favorite to beat FAET. That would set up a rematch of last year's state semifinal game in Cumberland.

The Douglass/Edmondson winner would get Cambridge/Kent County winner in other semifinal.

The irony is that if FH continues to win out, there is a very good chance they have to take the same path by beating the exact same playoff opponents as last year with the exception of Northern who they beat Friday.

Northern >> North Carroll >> Surrattsville >> Douglass.

Although I expect that Douglass/Edmondson game next week to be another dandy.
 
Yeah, surrattsville was my personal prediction, but if they lose (by miracle) then I see Cambridge coming up here...

How ever I would love to see Surrattsville lose, and Edmondson lose so we could get the chance to make douglass beat us at home!!! If THAT happened, then the title game would be a walk in the park!!!
 
Originally posted by GenSneaky:
Yeah, surrattsville was my personal prediction, but if they lose (by miracle) then I see Cambridge coming up here...

How ever I would love to see Surrattsville lose, and Edmondson lose so we could get the chance to make douglass beat us at home!!! If THAT happened, then the title game would be a walk in the park!!!
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NOTHING is a walk in the park. Just ask Allegany.
 
I'm just saying, if we are going to play one of these Baltimore "recruiting" schools we would have much more of a distinctive advantage playing them at home at Greenway. That would be much better than playing a B-more team IN B-more! Since the state game is played in Baltimore I would prefer there NOT be a home town Fav in the title game! Especially with the crowd FH brings down to the BIG game!!!


And whoever said Allegany had a "walk in the park"?! My personal prediction (previously posted) was that it would come down to the end, coin flip winner WOULD win the game, and that the total score would be UNDER 35... I'm pretty sure I hit the nail completely on the head!!!!

This post was edited on 11/16 2:23 PM by GenSneaky
 
It don't matter who it is. Let's take it one game at a time and beat NC first! Todd is there any truth about Morgantown?
 
Originally posted by GREEN75:
It don't matter who it is. Let's take it one game at a time and beat NC first! Todd is there any truth about Morgantown?
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No. FH has talked to several schools about possible scheduling with Morgantown being one of them. But FH has talked with Morgantown about this possibility since they joined the Quad three years ago. They have over 1600 students. The same goes for Maryland schools Wise, Meade and North Point. Not likely FH, Alco or any team in 1A will play any of those type schools. If the playoff system wasn't set up the way it is then these possibilities would be better.
 
Originally posted by TDHelmick:
Originally posted by GREEN75:
It don't matter who it is. Let's take it one game at a time and beat NC first! Todd is there any truth about Morgantown?
Click to expand...
No. FH has talked to several schools about possible scheduling with Morgantown being one of them. But FH has talked with Morgantown about this possibility since they joined the Quad three years ago. They have over 1600 students. The same goes for Maryland schools Wise, Meade and North Point. Not likely FH, Alco or any team in 1A will play any of those type schools. If the playoff system wasn't set up the way it is then these possibilities would be better.
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What about a small private school like Avalon?
 
Originally posted by TDHelmick:

Originally posted by GREEN75:
It don't matter who it is. Let's take it one game at a time and beat NC first! Todd is there any truth about Morgantown?
Click to expand...
They have over 1600 students. The same goes for Maryland schools Wise, Meade and North Point. Not likely FH, Alco or any team in 1A will play any of those type schools.
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Walter Johnson has over 2,100.
 
"Walter Johnson has over 2,100"

I've been saying this all year. Fort Hill is a good 1A team that has played a very mediocre schedule for two years in a row. It's not about the size of the school, it's about the quality of the program. They knew when they scheduled Walter Johnson that they were terrible, but because they were 4A they were getting those extra points.

Alco did the same thing with St. Charles this season. They were a first year 3A school without a senior class. Two years from now Alco won't touch St. Charles with a 10 foot pole.

FH or Alco shouldn't be playing Wise or actually any 4A South school because those teams are too good. Even the middle of the road schools like Bowie or Laurel send kids to D1 on a regular basis and would beat them decisively every time.
 
Originally posted by BoyznBlue:

"Walter Johnson has over 2,100"

I've been saying this all year. Fort Hill is a good 1A team that has played a very mediocre schedule for two years in a row. It's not about the size of the school, it's about the quality of the program. They knew when they scheduled Walter Johnson that they were terrible, but because they were 4A they were getting those extra points.

Alco did the same thing with St. Charles this season. They were a first year 3A school without a senior class. Two years from now Alco won't touch St. Charles with a 10 foot pole.

FH or Alco shouldn't be playing Wise or actually any 4A South school because those teams are too good. Even the middle of the road schools like Bowie or Laurel send kids to D1 on a regular basis and would beat them decisively every time.
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Do you have anything new to add? This is like your 50th post on the same exact topic attempting to demean these kids and their accomplishments. You might possibly have the most FH envy on this board, looking for ways to make sure everyone knows their 25 game streak isn't worth much because they can't compete with some 3A/4A schools. I have no one else to blame but myself for even responding. You still cannot grasp that Alco and FH are 1A schools. Not sure why your brain is stuck in the mud like so many others. It's not good for this community.

Yes, you are correct. Great observation. Walter Johnson has over 2000 students and is not a good football team. Same analogy with St. Charles. So Fort Hill and Allegany play them. Excellent analysis Captain Obvious. You win a gold medal. NEWSFLASH: All 1A schools play a similar 1A schedule. Stop comparing them to 3A/4A schools with good programs. On the other hand...

Take any Montgomery, PG, Charles, Frederick, Baltimore County, Bowie, Laurel, Wise, etc. school....bring their enrollment down to 1A levels and watch Fort Hill knock the dog snot out of them like they do everyone else at this level. Or double/triple the Cumberland enrollments and watch the same like they did 40-50 years ago.

To change your wording..."Fort Hill is the best 1A team and has played a solid 1A schedule for two years in a row."

Or give Allegany 2600 students and watch them continue to have 8 state Class 4A titles.



This post was edited on 11/17 12:51 PM by TDHelmick
 
FH is the only school he holds up to this "standard". The fact that they had by far the most bonus points in 1A and only five schools in the state had more,he just brushes off. Of the teams that are left in 1A, FH played four teams that made their state playoffs, no one else played more than three. The schedule is clearly good enough.
 
The "Walter Johnson has over 2000 students" comment was originally mine. My only point to that was to say that when you make comments that "Morgantown has 1600+ kids" as a reason FH won't play them you're sending mixed messages to the trolls - when you have one of the biggest schools in Maryland on the schedule. I understand the philosophy, but on the other hand, Gilman would be classified as a 1A school. Granted they are a private school, but size wise, they are nearly the same. They obviously recruit and would have their way with FH 4 out of 5 years, but size doesn't always matter.

Most of us are guys, we live by that rule in every other facet of life. ;)

Boyzinblue is taking it to the extreme, I agree with that. He thinks FH should be playing schools that even other 2A schools don't play, and that's just because he wants FH to lose. Division 3 colleges don't play the LSU's and Alabama's, likewise, class 1A schools don't need to be playing the Linganore's and Wise's to win their class.

TDH, I respect you for consistently coming on here to defend FH, but as most of us do, you see right through Boyz's agenda. I don't think putting a potential 1 loss on the schedule is inherently bad, having a Morgantown or a University as one of the "big" games. But it is what it is. a 1A school, playing a 1A schedule, and winning a 1A title. Isn't that what is supposed to happen?
 
I gave props for figuring out the difference between competitive schools with 1600+ students and the non-competitive schools with the same enrollments. Does that really need phrased another way so people don't get confused?

Can't use private schools as an enrollment example. Eastern Christian has 112 students and were nationally ranked. Hopefully an explanation is not needed.

Here is one of the problems again. FH has Sherando on the schedule. A very good 3A school. Then you add another 3A/4A school that is good. The chance of losing to both schools (like in 2010) who will platoon a great deal of their players is very high then you have to sweep Keyser, Alco, Chestnut Ridge among others to avoid sweating out making the playoffs on some years when you are clearly one of the top two teams in the region. Every coach is well aware of the scheduling/playoff factor. I don't call that fear, I call that being smart. Do you want to win a title or say you played an extremely tough schedule? When you are a 1A school you should be playing other 1A/2A schools when determining a playoff participant like the one being used. I can't make it any more simple than that. This goes for every school, not just the FH standard people want to single them out for.
 
Anyone seen that new max preps rankings? Apparently their algorithm has NC in the #2 team in class 1a...
 
There are probably 10+ teams in 1A who can beat NC, max preps rankings have always been horrible. But its interesting that if FAET beats Surrattsville (unlikely) and Douglass wins, Doug will probably be up here the following week. Id love to see them travel up here in that environment
 
RIGHT!!! That's what I've BEEN saying!!! Let Douglass see what western md football is all about!!!
 
If that did happen The title IMo is all but Fh's to lose. That would mean they'd play More than likely Surrattsville or Cambridge at M&T when (if) they did beat Douglass.
Oops i just realized i said Surrattsville, if FaET beat them FH would likely face one of the Eastern Shore teams, which theyd in turn beat by40-50. I dont see FAET beating Surrattsville and the 1A east winner. I really dont see dOuglass beating Edmondson. Imo edmondson is the better team and was last year, itll come down to who makes less mistakes again
This post was edited on 11/18 5:02 PM by CometCrazy21
 
So max preps has Surratts at 9-2, but there record is 7-4... Anyone know their actual schedule???
 
Just once, and only for pure entertainment and not vindictive reasons, I would love to see the dominant Baltimore team (Dunbar, Douglass, Edmundson) up at Greenway under the Friday Night Lights playing for essentially all the marbles.
 
I have max preps saying 9-2 for surratts

Last time I seen Dunbar up here in the mid 90's. They beat us in the old stadium... They had the nerve to look at the FH fans and tell them to "raise it up" as they were going in at half time. I just would love to see another crack at it!
 
That was Potomac from PG County in a playoff game, Dunbar has never been here for a game, just the Quad Scrimmage.

This post was edited on 11/19 7:33 AM by PolkHighPride
 
Great example is Keyser. They can brag about their schedule, that is above average at least. A few losses and a lower ranking come playoff time...7-4 the last 2 years!
 
That NC QB, Flowers, is damn good - damn good!!! And NC has a couple of outstanding receivers, as well. And, covering the passing game has always been a weakness at FH.

Realistically, Alco played NC very tough defensively. However, NC beat them like the Dunbars of old would beat FH - through the air. Could this NC team be the "sleeper" that Catoctin was a few years back? The ability to throw the ball well is a huge advantage in HS football. And, NC's defense is no slouch, either. And the at-the-line offensive/defensive audibles by NC were done better than I've ever seen a HS football team perform them. Especially, during their hurry-off offense. And NC has some decent speed, too.

The one advantage we have, though, is turf. We'll see how well NC translates their game from grass to turf. Don't be surprised if this game is closer than you might think. Let's not forget the "easy" win that was projected against Perryville a couple of years ago - another passing team.

Hope I'm wrong.
 
What struck me when I watched the video of the North Carroll/Allegany game was not just the proficiency of the NC passing game, but also the composure of the quarterback and more importantly the confidence with which the whole team played at the end. They were down 14-3 late in a game many thought they couldn't win. Yet, if you watch those kids, they're playing with confidence, and that confidence kept building and building. After they scored on the long pass and got the two point conversion, their defense bent but didn't break ultimately stopping what had been a potent Allegany rushing attack near the goal line when it counted. I saw it in the Frankfort/Keyser game, Keyser, like Allegany, had the game won and essentially had to run the clock out. But Frankfort, like North Carroll, weren't about to fold when their backs were against the ropes and fought until the final whistle blew, not willing to accept the fate others had already envisioned for them. The good teams with the right guys at the helm fight that way, the mediocre teams with the wrong captain running the ship find ways to give games away. If you watch the end of the North Carroll/ Allegany game, I mean actually take the time to watch it, you'll see a North Carroll team that had the confidence of a Dunbar team at the end, we've seen that look in a team before, you know that confident swagger that has the kids believing anything is possible as long as there is a single tick left on the clock. This North Carroll team may not be the easy out we think they'll be, the difference this year and last with Fort Hill is that at least our pass defense has been excellent and not shoddy like what we've had forever. Anytime anyone throws into that Fort Hill secondary they're taking the chance of Barnes and Johnson, et al taking it to the house. I think we're good, I really do, especially playing at home on a Friday night, but don't sleep on this one.

This post was edited on 11/19 9:03 AM by PolkHighPride
 
The posts regarding not taking NC lightly are true - sort of. That Allegany played tough is also true. But please keep in mind that Allegany was playing at a huge disadvantage for a 1A School. Simanski, their starting center, did not play... this no doubt accounts for a huge reason they didn't get the ball over the goal line. Patterson was out and Kristian Robinette was hobbling. Tyler Eirich was dinged and not 100%.

When Alco didn't put the game away it obviously deflated them and gave a boost to NC. Sure, they had to complete the passes but this wasn't what I would call classic greatness moving the ball down the field. But it did happen.

Allegany is still 14 pts. better than NC when healthy - maybe more. FH is 20 pts better than Allegany at its best. NC will not pass the ball down the field like Dunbar. FH is fast in coverage and you will see the passing game of NC squashed. If Alco can stop NC for most of the game... what will FH do? NC only scored a few points on a battered Allegany team. FH will crush 'em.
 
Originally posted by Waggle Pass:
The question is not that if NC will score some points, but how will they stop Fort Hill.
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Sort of like Brunswick in 2011.
 
Except I don't think this pass offense is quite as prolific as Brunswick 2011. And our pass D is much improved from then. Heck, they only scored 17 against Alco and 14 of those were late 4th quarter points. I'd be shocked if FH had only 14 points entering the 4th quarter. North Carroll looked like they have a smallish line on both sides of the ball and not much speed in the game last Friday.
 
I hope you guys are right and FH smashes NC. However, I just see that little dangerous "spark" of gut-wrenching perseverance mixed with some good athleticism.

I'm not sure what game you guys were watching, but I though NC did a fantastic job on defense. And, NC has some decent speed on defense. They forced Allegany back inside and hit the gaps very well - most of the time. Similar to what Alco did against FH. Think back to the overthrows and dropped balls at homecoming, as well as the mental mistakes. And, remember, Alco kept FH's #24 in check most of the game.

I don't doubt FH will score some points, just like always, but NC will likely come out swinging. FH would be wise to mix in some TE screens to off-set the run blitzes by NC. I'm guessing that Flowers will have a 200+ passing yards game, unless FH double-covers NC's quick, "hands of glue" receiver (forget the young man's number). Actually, they have two very good receivers.

Again, I hope I'm way off base, but this team so reminds me of the Perryville team that came to town and beat a very good, and speedy, FH team - with only their passing game. And, NC is well-coached, as well.
 
FH pass defense has matured this year - a little faster and a lot smarter. Again, NC cannot possibly score more points on FH than they did on Allegany especially playing at Greenway. Come on folks! NC did not beat a healthy Alco.

NC does not have a ground game that controls the ball and sets up the pass. If they cannot consistently pass, they lose. It's nice not to get over confident, but this should be a multiple interception blow out for FH.



This post was edited on 11/20 12:03 PM by Lagmeister
 
Originally posted by 4R341:
unless FH double-covers NC's quick, "hands of glue" receiver (forget the young man's number). Actually, they have two very good receivers.
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I have to admit I got a good laugh out of this. Double-cover NC receiver? Which D1 school is he attending? I'm pretty sure Ty will handle him. I feel confident about that. With Barnes back there, too, I'm not too worried about the other guy either.
 
Did any of you actually watch the ENTIRE NC ALCO game. Allegany controlled the game for all but 3 minutes. Allegany ran up the middle at will, whenever it wanted too... North Carroll had 3 solid drives the entire game with only 1 (the last one) ending in a touch down. Unfortunatly for Allegany they knew that in order to beat FH the following week they would have to work on something other then running up the middle.. They should have continued to pound the ball up the middle. I also never understood why Kirk and Eirich didn't switch positions. Kirk is a much better north south runner. It came back to bite them in the butt as they didn't put away the game first. Allegany got cute and blew it in the end. Plain and simple. North Carroll is out matched up front and doesn't have anybody who can match up with Ty. Nothing about this North Carroll team even remotely resembles that Perryville team. That Perryville team was full of athletes at every position and was big up front.. Sure North Carroll deserves respect and should not be looked over. They played a scrappy game against Alco and came out victorious! Kudos to them for that, but bottom line is if FH stays healthy you will all have your stadium pizza again next week.
 
"Do you have anything new to add? This is like your 50th post on the same exact topic attempting to demean these kids and their accomplishments. You might possibly have the most FH envy on this board, looking for ways to make sure everyone knows their 25 game streak isn't worth much because they can't compete with some 3A/4A schools. I have no one else to blame but myself for even responding. You still cannot grasp that Alco and FH are 1A schools. Not sure why your brain is stuck in the mud like so many others. It's not good for this community."

I don't want to keep this going but TDH called me out personally, with an extremely incorrect statement. I have never "demeaned" any young person on this board or anywhere else. Most years I have relatives playing for FH and/or Allegany and I always support city teams. If you notice I don't really start that many threads, so if I've said something 50 times, it's because other people have brought up the exact same topic 50 times.

You seem like a very insecure person. If you actually read my statement I gave Alco and FH the same criticism. And I was critical of the schedule and not the players themselves. I have also said many times in the past that the FH staff is smart for some of the scheduling decisions they've made.

And for the record, All 1A schools do not play a similar schedule. Surrattsville, for example, is in a 3A/2A/1A division where they can't avoid Douglass and Gwynn Park every year and play Silver Oak, Maths and Walter Johnson. And the schools you're talking about FH "knocking the dog snot of" 50 years ago"? Are you serious? That was before integration.
 
Originally posted by BoyznBlue:
All 1A schools do not play a similar schedule. Surrattsville, for example, is in a 3A/2A/1A division where they can't avoid Douglass and Gwynn Park every year
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FH played Douglass a few years ago, wish they were still on the schedule. But since we are not in their division, it's kind of hard to play those teams as if we were.

FH would probably be okay with playing a good 2A school. Have them get in touch with Coach Appel, they always said they liked the FH program.
 
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